The Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer Debate – The Great Unknown for Kurt Warner

January 20, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Loyal Homer about whether or not Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner is a hall of famer.



Every professional sport has a number of great players who, in spite of their accolades, never receive an invitation to the sport’s hall of fame. Baseball, for example, is full of them. Some players are seemingly disqualified from serious contention because of their connection to allegations of cheating (Mark McGwire). Others players may have infamous incidents that overshadow their career accomplishments (Roberto Alomar and the loogie heard ‘round the world). Others are ignored because they failed to reach certain benchmark achievements, like hitting 500 homeruns (Fred McGriff). Whatever their reason for exclusion, a number of great players who fail to make it into the hall of fame spawn debates about their worthiness, and football has more than its fair share of such debates. This debate examines NFL quarterback Kurt Warner’s qualifications for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Sports Geek lived up to his reputation as more than just a scholar with a mind for statistics but as a knowledgeable sports intellectual, who provides unique fact-based insight. Sports Geek’s argument began by highlighting Kurt Warner’s pedigree as one of the most prolific passers of his day, citing his huge success in St. Louis from 1999-2001, a 9-3 career playoff record, and his Super Bowl MVP. Perhaps the Sports Geek’s most compelling argument was his comparison to other quarterbacks with similar histories, quarterbacks who are actually inducted into the Pro Hall of Fame.

Loyal Homer fired back with an equally stirring argument that pointed to the monumental collapse of Warner’s career during his post-Greatest-Show-On-Turf days. Loyal Homer reminded Warner supporters that the embattled quarterback was unseated twice in as many years because of his failures to control the ball. Loyal Homer made significant advances for the argument by pointing out that in 2005 Warner was brought to Arizona where he promptly split time with the likes of Josh McCown.

Both Sports Geek and Loyal Homer brought up the fact that most of Kurt Warner’s successes were accomplished during a relatively short career in a short burst of greatness offset by periods of struggles and ineffectiveness. Whether the short timeframe of Warner’s success should be viewed as a positive or negative is truly a matter of personal opinion.

For me, the arguments boiled down to one central question: Is the debate whether Kurt Warner will be inducted into the Hall of Fame or whether Kurt Warner should be inducted into the hall of fame? Sports Geek makes it abundantly clear that Warner boasts career numbers that probably will send him to Canton… eventually. But Loyal Homer convinced me that Warner should not be remembered among the greats of the game. Therefore I am awarding the victory to Loyal Homer.

When I think of the greatest names in professional football history names like Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning come to mind. Kurt Warner will be remembered as a very good quarterback, but I agree with Loyal Homer that the NFL should not dilute the memory and legacy of those who are truly the best by allowing anything less to enter enshrinement in the living memory of the sport, which is the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

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The Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer Debate – A Tale of Two Kurts

January 19, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Loyal Homer about whether or not Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner is a hall of famer.



The past decade fans have been privy to one of the greatest generations of football players in history. The NFL is currently littered with living legends. Gridiron goliaths, like Peyton Manning and Brett Favre stand head and shoulders above the competition and will no doubt go down in professional football history as some of the greatest players to ever take the field. In this era of elite play, there are great players who will ultimately not make the cut as one of the greats in history. This is great news for fans, and more importantly to the TSD crew, because it allows us to argue about the place in history of our favorite players. One player that elicits such controversy, is a star in the twilight of his career – Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner.

Kurt Warner’s career is best summed up in the immortal words of Charles Dickens: “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.”

The current Arizona Cardinals quarterback has built an up-and-down career marked by periods of incredible success and phases of mediocrity and epic failures. With a resume that includes two league MVPs, multiple Super Bowl appearances, and a Super Bowl MVP it is easy to establish that Warner is a talented quarterback. But his physical frailty and failures between the 2002-2004 seasons call his hall of fame qualifications into doubt.

Is Kurt Warner a hall of fame quarterback?

Sports Geek is sure to construct a cerebral argument, supported by empirical evidence, stating that Kurt Warner is a deserving candidate for enshrinement in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And we can count on Loyal Homer to issue a passionate rebuttal, explaining the reasons why Kurt Warner should have no place among the greatest players of all time.
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Whose intellectual offense will prevail? Should Kurt start packing his bags for Canton, Ohio, or will he have to buy a ticket if he wants to get into the Hall of Fame?

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The Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer Debate – The Hall of Game Threshold

January 19, 2010

Read the debate intro and the opposing argument from Loyal Homer that Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner is not a hall of famer.



These are the types of questions that The Sports Debates was launched to answer. These questions, folks, are also the most compelling to Sports Geeks like me.

It is a simple question – is Kurt Warner a hall of fame caliber quarterback? Such a simple question deserves a simple answer. It would be great to give one, too.

Instead, a simple examination of his statistics, followed by a comparison to current pro football hall of fame quarterbacks, proves without a doubt that Kurt Warner, even if he does decide to retire this season as the still young(ish) age of 38, deserves to be recognized as a hall of famer.

Kurt Warner in just 125 career starts – thanks to injuries – has compiled one of the best careers for any quarterback of all time. From 1999-2001 Kurt Warner strung together one of the greatest runs by any measure. In 1999 (when Warner completed one of the greatest seasons for pro quarterback ever) he threw a whopping 41 touchdowns against just 13 interceptions and led the NFC with a completion percentage of over 65 percent. In 2000 he managed to improve his completion percentage to 67.7 percent and lead the NFC in seven notable statistical categories, despite starting just 11 games. In 2001 he led his team with an amazing season-long performance where he completed nearly 69 percent of his passes, threw for nearly 5,000 yards, and averaged 301.9 yards passing per game. Perhaps Warner benefited from the offensive scheme the Rams employed, but he is also responsible for making it work like no other quarterback could.

The biggest threshold Warner has to pass for many was the ability to perform outside of the late 1990s St. Louis Rams’ offenses. Sure, Kurt Warner was great during the Greatest Show On Turf days. But, how good of a quarterback was Warner after St. Louis? No worries – he was great. After a couple of injury-riddled seasons he posted nearly 3,500 yards and 27 touchdowns in 2007, then followed that up with 4,583 yards passing and 30 touchdowns along with a Super Bowl appearance (and a brutal loss that could have been a great win if not for some bad defense down the stretch). This season Warner led the team to another season of double-digit wins and tossed over 3,700 yards with 26 touchdowns. Warner’s skills are not exactly in decline.

Warner also has a 9-3 career playoff record, a Super Bowl win and Super Bowl MVP trophy.

So, what is the threshold for the hall of fame? On the surface Warner seems worthy of consideration. I offer two quarterbacks that Kurt Warner compares to similarly to prove that he is worthy of being a hall of famer: Dan Fouts and Troy Aikman.

Dan Fouts, like Kurt Warner, threw for over 4,000 passing yards three times in his career. Unlike Warner, who spread his performances out throughout his career, Fouts reached that magical season benchmark in three consecutive seasons. Dan Fouts was a very accurate passer, one of the reasons he reached the hall of fame. Kurt Warner’s completion percentage for a season only once dipped below 60 percent. Fouts failed to reach 60 percent 10 times. Fouts also finished his career just two games over .500 as a starter, with a career playoff record of 3-4. Warner is currently 13 games over .500.

Troy Aikman is another hall of fame quarterback that Kurt Warner already leads in many statistical categories. Obviously, Aikman’s playoff record is incomparable, finishing 11-4 with several rings. But, Aikman never threw 25 touchdown passes in a season, notching 23 in 1992 as a career high. Warner surpassed 25 TD passes on five separate occasions. The highest passing yards per game Aikman ever averaged is 229.5. Sure, Aikman was a great quarterback, but on a team with a great running back, too. The burden for Warner to carry the team’s offensive output and continue to perform at a high level separates him from other players he compares favorably to, like Troy Aikman.

If 2009 proves to be Warner’s last, he will have ended strongly, unlike the aforementioned hall of famers. Fouts ended his career with a five win season, just 2,517 passing yards and 10 touchdowns. Aikman ended with just four wins, fewer than 2,000 passing yards and seven touchdowns. Both Fouts and Aikman are deserving of hall of fame recognition. By the threshold their careers have established, so is Kurt Warner.

What, truly, is the knock against Kurt Warner’s hall of fame credentials? His stats are great. His performance on the biggest stage is great. He has a Super Bowl MVP. He is a great player, a great story, and one of the best of all time. The only true knock against Warner is that he has not played very long. He has only started 125 games. For Warner, however, his relatively short playing time turns out to be a positive when considering his hall of famer worthiness. The only factor that makes Kurt Warner’s accomplishments more noteworthy is the fact that he accomplished so much in such a relatively short span of time.

I could take up twenty-five pages of point by point comparison of Warner and other pro football hall of fame quarterbacks. I simply do not have to do that. Warner’s statistics, his consistency, and his dominance of the game during his prime are remarkable, and worthy of recognition of the highest honor as one of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game of football.

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The Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer Debate – Warner Is Not Canton Bound Just Yet

January 19, 2010

Read the debate intro and the opposing argument from Sports Geek that Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner is a hall of famer.



Let me first say that I am a big Kurt Warner supporter. I, like much of the country, became enamored with him back in 1999 when the St. Louis Rams made that magical run all the way to Super Bowl XXXIV, which goes down as one of the better Super Bowls in my lifetime. I think his rags to riches story reeks of a Hollywood movie. He comes across as generally a nice guy, and I can appreciate that. But whether or not he has established himself as a hall of fame quarterback is at the core of today’s debate. I have believe that he is not a lock for the hall of fame. (Side note: Bleacher Fan has been several times, and tells us it should be on our “Bucket List” of places to go).

That season with the Rams, in 1999, was Warner’s first real playing time with an NFL franchise. He had previously dominated NFL Europe. But in 1999, with starter Trent Green tearing his ACL in preseason, the show became Kurt’s to run, and that’s exactly what he did. He turned the Rams into The Greatest Show on Turf. He continued to put up monster individual numbers in 2000 and 2001, and would have won another Super Bowl in 2001 if not for a kicker named Adam Vinatieri.

That is where it went down hill… for a little while at least.

Warner began experiencing problems with fumbling and poor overall decisions with the football. He threw 11 interceptions in only six starts in 2002 due to a broken finger on his throwing hand. In the season opener in 2003, he fumbled a whopping SIX times. He was benched by head coach Mike Martz and replaced by Marc Bulger. He never started another game for the Rams.

After that, he signed with the New York Giants and started for half the season before giving way to heralded rookie Eli Manning. There was no way he was going to be a starter for long in the Meadowlands. Like he would find out later in Arizona, he was expected to groom a young hot shot coming out of college, and that did not really turn out well either time.

His time in Arizona did not start out so well, either. He split time with Josh McCown, of all people, in 2005. The Cardinals then drafted Matt Leinart, and Warner was expected to take a back seat. But due to injuries and ineffectiveness, Leinart was never able to keep a firm grip on the starting job.

Warner has since posted back-to-back playoff seasons in Arizona, suffering yet another heartbreaking Super Bowl loss last season.

Looking at his career numbers, it is fair to question whether or not Kurt Warner belongs in the Hall of Fame. He, after all, did not become a starter in the NFL until he was 28-years-old. He has played 12 years in the league, and in only six of those years did he throw for more than 11 touchdowns. His good years were actually great. But he has not been consistent enough to make it to Canton, Ohio. The other years proved that. And after the big hit he took Saturday, I am not sure he will step out on the field next season.

The hall of fame is supposed to be reserved for the game’s greats. Does six great years reserve a spot for a player alongside the game’s all time greats? I don’t think so!

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