The Best NFL HOF Class of All Time Debate… Walsh, Noll, and Payton Clinch the Best Class

August 13, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Bleacher Fan and Loyal Homer.

This debate almost seems ridiculous. I mean, how can you possibly narrow down the best overall class in the history of the NFL Hall of Fame? Just thinking about this made my head want to explode. So, I dug down deep and determined that history – history not just of the players, but of the development of the league overall – had to play a major role in the best class ever.

Two comments of caution before I give the full blown reasoning for why 1993 blows away the Hall of Fame competition.

The preeminent, in-your-face mantra that sports media hits us all in the face with day in and day out is “what have you done for me lately.” It is precisely that faulty reasoning that entraps my two esteemed competitors today. Recent classes lack the context of history that helps bring accomplishments and overall impact into focus.

My second word of caution when evaluating a great Hall of Fame class? Fight the urge to simply reward good players, or even great players. Sure, they deserve recognition and Hall of Fame status. But, did they do anything to the game of football that left a lasting impact, besides a smattering of personal accomplishments and records? Did they help shape the modern game? Good Hall of Fame classes are comprised of solid players with the right list of accomplishments to warrant a bronze bust. Great classes – the best class ever – must do something over the top, something greater than personal accomplishments.

With those two cautionary comments in mind, I submit only one choice for the best NFL Hall of Fame class ever –1993.

One reason why this class sticks out is that it only had five inductees. Folks, less is more when it comes to Hall of Fame inductees. Quality beats quantity everyday.

This class had boatloads of quality. First, quarterback Dan Fouts, one of the two great quarterbacks the league has ever seen that also failed to win a title. Next was legendary guard Larry Little, one of the greatest stories in the Hall of Fame considering he was undrafted out of Bethune-Cookman College. He was a member of some of the great Dolphins teams of the 1970s as well.

But, while those players are both nice stories, they pale in comparison to the 1993’s final three inductees.

My affection and admiration for Walter Payton has been chronicled before at The Sports Debates. In fact, I believe him to be the greatest running back of all time. He accomplished more in less time – with an unmatched toughness and grace – than any other running back in the history of the league. And, if you got back and look at the stats from a past debate, our most loyal readers overwhelmingly agree with me. Payton changed the perception of the running back position. Payton was tougher and more versatile than his predecessors, and his lasting impact on the game is still felt today. The idea that running backs have to be great pass catchers and great runners is part of our professional football understanding now because of the standard Payton set.

The fourth member of the class is Chuck Noll. If you don’t know much about Noll, learn. Noll rightly gets a great deal of credit for racial integration in the NFL as the head coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers. He made Joe Gilliam, and African-American, one of the league’s first black starting quarterbacks. Noll put another African-American in at starting running back, a guy named Franco Harris, who won the 1975 Super Bowl MVP. Noll helped shape the career of Tony Dungy, who played for the master coach and also was part of his staff for many years, including a position as a defensive coordinator. Noll was not only a great coach who won four Super Bowls and 209 career games, he left an impressive mark on the game by spearheading its inclusiveness, helping to shape the game we all enjoy today.

The final member of the class is Bill Walsh. Some sports fans know Walsh as the mastermind of the San Francisco 49ers teams that won three Super Bowls. That alone is enough for a Hall of Fame bust. But while Noll’s legacy has faded into the background of a fast evolving modern society, Walsh’s impact on the game is still seen every Sunday by any team running the famed West Coast Offense (yes, it has its own Web site). That’s right – Walsh invented the offense that has confounded defensive coordinators for decades. Well, perhaps he did not invent it. He perfected it, though, as a student of the inventor of modern professional football, Paul Brown.

If that legacy is not enough, consider the coaching tree he has left behind. Twelve current NFL coaches are linked back to Walsh. And the list of 12 current coaches does not include guys like Mike Holmgren, Sam Wyche, Dennis Green, Mike Tice, Brian Billick, Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden, Steve Mariucci, and many more. Walsh’s impact on the game is, in many respects, even larger than that of his teacher. Not only did he perfect a now dominant offense and achieve personal accolades, he also trained the majority of minds that are still positively impacting professional football today. No other Hall of Famer has the credentials Walsh has.

While Walsh alone is enough to give the 1993 class the nod of superiority, adding in Noll, Payton along with Fouts and Little makes this the highest quality, most well rounded NFL Hall of Fame class in its history.
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The Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer Debate – The Great Unknown for Kurt Warner

January 20, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Loyal Homer about whether or not Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner is a hall of famer.



Every professional sport has a number of great players who, in spite of their accolades, never receive an invitation to the sport’s hall of fame. Baseball, for example, is full of them. Some players are seemingly disqualified from serious contention because of their connection to allegations of cheating (Mark McGwire). Others players may have infamous incidents that overshadow their career accomplishments (Roberto Alomar and the loogie heard ‘round the world). Others are ignored because they failed to reach certain benchmark achievements, like hitting 500 homeruns (Fred McGriff). Whatever their reason for exclusion, a number of great players who fail to make it into the hall of fame spawn debates about their worthiness, and football has more than its fair share of such debates. This debate examines NFL quarterback Kurt Warner’s qualifications for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Sports Geek lived up to his reputation as more than just a scholar with a mind for statistics but as a knowledgeable sports intellectual, who provides unique fact-based insight. Sports Geek’s argument began by highlighting Kurt Warner’s pedigree as one of the most prolific passers of his day, citing his huge success in St. Louis from 1999-2001, a 9-3 career playoff record, and his Super Bowl MVP. Perhaps the Sports Geek’s most compelling argument was his comparison to other quarterbacks with similar histories, quarterbacks who are actually inducted into the Pro Hall of Fame.

Loyal Homer fired back with an equally stirring argument that pointed to the monumental collapse of Warner’s career during his post-Greatest-Show-On-Turf days. Loyal Homer reminded Warner supporters that the embattled quarterback was unseated twice in as many years because of his failures to control the ball. Loyal Homer made significant advances for the argument by pointing out that in 2005 Warner was brought to Arizona where he promptly split time with the likes of Josh McCown.

Both Sports Geek and Loyal Homer brought up the fact that most of Kurt Warner’s successes were accomplished during a relatively short career in a short burst of greatness offset by periods of struggles and ineffectiveness. Whether the short timeframe of Warner’s success should be viewed as a positive or negative is truly a matter of personal opinion.

For me, the arguments boiled down to one central question: Is the debate whether Kurt Warner will be inducted into the Hall of Fame or whether Kurt Warner should be inducted into the hall of fame? Sports Geek makes it abundantly clear that Warner boasts career numbers that probably will send him to Canton… eventually. But Loyal Homer convinced me that Warner should not be remembered among the greats of the game. Therefore I am awarding the victory to Loyal Homer.

When I think of the greatest names in professional football history names like Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning come to mind. Kurt Warner will be remembered as a very good quarterback, but I agree with Loyal Homer that the NFL should not dilute the memory and legacy of those who are truly the best by allowing anything less to enter enshrinement in the living memory of the sport, which is the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

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The Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer Debate – A Tale of Two Kurts

January 19, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Loyal Homer about whether or not Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner is a hall of famer.



The past decade fans have been privy to one of the greatest generations of football players in history. The NFL is currently littered with living legends. Gridiron goliaths, like Peyton Manning and Brett Favre stand head and shoulders above the competition and will no doubt go down in professional football history as some of the greatest players to ever take the field. In this era of elite play, there are great players who will ultimately not make the cut as one of the greats in history. This is great news for fans, and more importantly to the TSD crew, because it allows us to argue about the place in history of our favorite players. One player that elicits such controversy, is a star in the twilight of his career – Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner.

Kurt Warner’s career is best summed up in the immortal words of Charles Dickens: “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.”

The current Arizona Cardinals quarterback has built an up-and-down career marked by periods of incredible success and phases of mediocrity and epic failures. With a resume that includes two league MVPs, multiple Super Bowl appearances, and a Super Bowl MVP it is easy to establish that Warner is a talented quarterback. But his physical frailty and failures between the 2002-2004 seasons call his hall of fame qualifications into doubt.

Is Kurt Warner a hall of fame quarterback?

Sports Geek is sure to construct a cerebral argument, supported by empirical evidence, stating that Kurt Warner is a deserving candidate for enshrinement in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And we can count on Loyal Homer to issue a passionate rebuttal, explaining the reasons why Kurt Warner should have no place among the greatest players of all time.
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Whose intellectual offense will prevail? Should Kurt start packing his bags for Canton, Ohio, or will he have to buy a ticket if he wants to get into the Hall of Fame?

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The Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer Debate – The Hall of Game Threshold

January 19, 2010

Read the debate intro and the opposing argument from Loyal Homer that Arizona Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner is not a hall of famer.



These are the types of questions that The Sports Debates was launched to answer. These questions, folks, are also the most compelling to Sports Geeks like me.

It is a simple question – is Kurt Warner a hall of fame caliber quarterback? Such a simple question deserves a simple answer. It would be great to give one, too.

Instead, a simple examination of his statistics, followed by a comparison to current pro football hall of fame quarterbacks, proves without a doubt that Kurt Warner, even if he does decide to retire this season as the still young(ish) age of 38, deserves to be recognized as a hall of famer.

Kurt Warner in just 125 career starts – thanks to injuries – has compiled one of the best careers for any quarterback of all time. From 1999-2001 Kurt Warner strung together one of the greatest runs by any measure. In 1999 (when Warner completed one of the greatest seasons for pro quarterback ever) he threw a whopping 41 touchdowns against just 13 interceptions and led the NFC with a completion percentage of over 65 percent. In 2000 he managed to improve his completion percentage to 67.7 percent and lead the NFC in seven notable statistical categories, despite starting just 11 games. In 2001 he led his team with an amazing season-long performance where he completed nearly 69 percent of his passes, threw for nearly 5,000 yards, and averaged 301.9 yards passing per game. Perhaps Warner benefited from the offensive scheme the Rams employed, but he is also responsible for making it work like no other quarterback could.

The biggest threshold Warner has to pass for many was the ability to perform outside of the late 1990s St. Louis Rams’ offenses. Sure, Kurt Warner was great during the Greatest Show On Turf days. But, how good of a quarterback was Warner after St. Louis? No worries – he was great. After a couple of injury-riddled seasons he posted nearly 3,500 yards and 27 touchdowns in 2007, then followed that up with 4,583 yards passing and 30 touchdowns along with a Super Bowl appearance (and a brutal loss that could have been a great win if not for some bad defense down the stretch). This season Warner led the team to another season of double-digit wins and tossed over 3,700 yards with 26 touchdowns. Warner’s skills are not exactly in decline.

Warner also has a 9-3 career playoff record, a Super Bowl win and Super Bowl MVP trophy.

So, what is the threshold for the hall of fame? On the surface Warner seems worthy of consideration. I offer two quarterbacks that Kurt Warner compares to similarly to prove that he is worthy of being a hall of famer: Dan Fouts and Troy Aikman.

Dan Fouts, like Kurt Warner, threw for over 4,000 passing yards three times in his career. Unlike Warner, who spread his performances out throughout his career, Fouts reached that magical season benchmark in three consecutive seasons. Dan Fouts was a very accurate passer, one of the reasons he reached the hall of fame. Kurt Warner’s completion percentage for a season only once dipped below 60 percent. Fouts failed to reach 60 percent 10 times. Fouts also finished his career just two games over .500 as a starter, with a career playoff record of 3-4. Warner is currently 13 games over .500.

Troy Aikman is another hall of fame quarterback that Kurt Warner already leads in many statistical categories. Obviously, Aikman’s playoff record is incomparable, finishing 11-4 with several rings. But, Aikman never threw 25 touchdown passes in a season, notching 23 in 1992 as a career high. Warner surpassed 25 TD passes on five separate occasions. The highest passing yards per game Aikman ever averaged is 229.5. Sure, Aikman was a great quarterback, but on a team with a great running back, too. The burden for Warner to carry the team’s offensive output and continue to perform at a high level separates him from other players he compares favorably to, like Troy Aikman.

If 2009 proves to be Warner’s last, he will have ended strongly, unlike the aforementioned hall of famers. Fouts ended his career with a five win season, just 2,517 passing yards and 10 touchdowns. Aikman ended with just four wins, fewer than 2,000 passing yards and seven touchdowns. Both Fouts and Aikman are deserving of hall of fame recognition. By the threshold their careers have established, so is Kurt Warner.

What, truly, is the knock against Kurt Warner’s hall of fame credentials? His stats are great. His performance on the biggest stage is great. He has a Super Bowl MVP. He is a great player, a great story, and one of the best of all time. The only true knock against Warner is that he has not played very long. He has only started 125 games. For Warner, however, his relatively short playing time turns out to be a positive when considering his hall of famer worthiness. The only factor that makes Kurt Warner’s accomplishments more noteworthy is the fact that he accomplished so much in such a relatively short span of time.

I could take up twenty-five pages of point by point comparison of Warner and other pro football hall of fame quarterbacks. I simply do not have to do that. Warner’s statistics, his consistency, and his dominance of the game during his prime are remarkable, and worthy of recognition of the highest honor as one of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game of football.

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