The Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox, and Joe Torre Debate – Who’s Joe Daddy?

March 10, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Bleacher Fan and Loyal Homer.

Baseball fans today are living during a special era, one in which they are privy to witnessing three of the greatest managers that have ever lived: Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa, and Joe Torre. All three of these managers are living legends. Together they are a triumvirate of baseball greatness, collectively accumulating 7,211 wins, 16 pennants and seven World Series titles.

Today’s debate attempts to answer a difficult question, which one of these living legends is the greatest manager? Each man provides a unique coaching style and each has accomplished more than most managers dream, which makes the question extremely hard for most people. But then again, I (Babe Ruthless) am not like most people. Looking at the statistics it is undeniable that one of these managers’ star shines brighter than the rest – Mr. Torre.

Admittedly Joe Torre trails Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa in wins, but wins do not necessarily translate into World Series trophies. In terms of championships, Torre is no doubt superior to Bobby Cox and Tony LaRussa. Torre has managed his way to four World Series championships, one in 1996 and a three-peat from 1998 through 2000. A three-peat for crying out loud! Who does that!? Winning back-to-back World Series is a feat very few ever accomplish, but managing a team to back-to-back-to-back championships is ridiculously impressive. During his managerial career Joe Torre has accumulated twice the World Series hardware that LaRussa has and four times more than Bobby Cox. Which is all the more impressive considering two of Torre’s four titles were won against Atlanta Braves teams managed by Bobby Cox. Torre’s Yanks bested the Bravos four games to two in 1996, then swept them outright in 1999. Although none of Torre’s World Series teams have contended against LaRussa’s Cardinals, he asserted his managerial dominance against the Red Birds in the 2009 National League Divisional Series. Just about anyway you cut it, Joe Torre is a winner… and his World Series victories leave no doubt about who is the best manager.

It should also be noted that most of Torre’s accomplishments as a manager were achieved in one of the most challenging sports markets in the world – New York City. Each year the Yankees set out to win the World Series, and any year they do not is considered a failure. That is an incredible amount of pressure. Add to that the fact that his every move was scrutinized under the microscope of the New York media, and that he had to please the hardest boss to work for in sports, George Steinbrenner, and we are talking about a job that makes air traffic controllers say, “Now that sounds stressful!” Seriously, Steinbrenner changed managers 20 times in 23 seasons. For Joe Torre to have stayed in the Bronx as long as he did is an incredible feat.

Cox and LaRussa are excellent managers. Of the three, each has their claim to fame. LaRussa has the most wins of the three with 2,552 wins (third all time). Cox has the highest overall winning percentage .556 spread across 28 seasons. (He also deserves a tip of the cap for owning the most career ejections.) But, do either of those factors compare with Torre’s claim – winning four World Series championships? No. The World Series is the reason we even have a regular season. Think about how those athletes put up seemingly unbelievable, or even record breaking, individual performances in playoff losses. The quality athletes will usually admit that they would gladly trade their individual accomplishments in order to keep their teams championship hopes alive. Why? Because the championship is what truly matters. Joe Torre has been able to bring his team more championships than Cox and LaRussa combined. That sets him apart as the greatest manager in the game today.

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The Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox, and Joe Torre Debate – The Man with the Golden Touch

March 10, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Babe Ruthless and Loyal Homer.

For any manager, 2,000 wins is impressive. I do not care who you are or how you got them! In fact, there are only ten managers in the entire 100+ year history of Major League Baseball who have accomplished that feat. Of those ten managers, seven have been inducted into the Hall of Fame. Three, however, have not been inducted into that hallowed hall.

Because they are still managing!

For the only time in Major League history, three managers with more than 2000 wins are active at the same time – Los Angeles Dodgers Manager Joe Torre, Atlanta Braves Manager Bobby Cox, and St. Louis Cardinals Manager Tony LaRussa.

While there is no doubt that all three of these managers will eventually join their 2,000-win fraternity brothers in Cooperstown, you can always count on TSD to dissect even the greatest of accomplishments in order to rank them among each other. Furthermore, you can always count on Bleacher Fan to give the CORRECT arguments in resolving any such debate!

The greatest of the three managing legends still active in baseball today is Tony LaRussa!

I can hear you screaming already, “Torre’s got more rings! Or, ”Bobby Cox DOMINATED in the ‘90s won 14 consecutive division titles and five World Series appearances during that same run!”

While those results are impressive (and clearly HOF worthy), neither Cox nor Torre have been able to do what LaRussa has done, which is to take every single team he has ever coached into the postseason at least once.

Although both Cox and Torre have had ample postseason experience (and success), they both have blemishes on their resumé where an entire stint for at least one Major League ball club failed to warrant a postseason appearance (Torre with the New York Mets and the St. Louis Cardinals, and Cox with the Braves during his FIRST run from 1978-1981). Simply put, LaRussa is the best manager of the modern era because he can win WHEREVER he goes. It does not matter which uniform he puts on, having LaRussa in your dugout AUTOMATICALLY makes you a postseason threat.

LaRussa took over for the 46-60 Chicago White Sox midway through the 1979 season, and his impact was immediately felt on Chicago’s South side (Editor’s Note: Because he shot someone?), as the White Sox would finish the season at .500 (27-27) under the rookie manager. By 1983, LaRussa had the White Sox playing in the ALCS as Eastern Division champions (by that time, Torre had already been fired from the New York Mets with Cox suffering the same fate in Atlanta).

After LaRussa was fired by the White Sox in 1986, he was called up almost immediately by the 31-52 Oakland Athletics, and once again brought immediate results. He closed out the A’s 1986 season by winning 45 of their final 79 games. Just two short years later, LaRussa became the first between him, Cox, and Torre experience the World Series, as he led the A’s in claiming the 1988 AL Pennant. That year was just the beginning for LaRussa’s A’s, though, as they would go on to claim two more consecutive AL Pennants and a World Series Championship all between 1988 and 1990. Just two years later, LaRussa reached the ALCS one more time as the Western Division Champions.

After the death of Athletics’ owner Walter Haas, Jr. in 1995, LaRussa left Oakland to become manager of the St. Louis Cardinals, where he has remained.

What happened since LaRussa came to St. Louis? You guessed it – SEVEN more division championships, TWO National League Pennants, and ANOTHER World Series ring. The 2006 World Series Championship also earned LaRussa a very special place in baseball history, as he became only the second manager ever, along with Sparky Anderson, to win World Series titles in both the American and the National League.

In recognition for his ability to win ANYWHERE, LaRussa has also been named Manager of the Year at least once with each of the ball clubs he has managed, and has earned the title a total of four times – yet another accolade that Cox and Torre are unable to match. Cox also has four Manager of the Year awards, but failed to win any during his first stint in Atlanta. Torre, despite all his rings, has only won the award twice.

If Tony LaRussa were digging for gold, he would have struck it rich several times over, while Cox and Torre each over the course of their long careers found only one mine that paid off. Granted, the mines discovered by Cox and Torre provided them with success for a period of several consecutive years, but they eventually exhausted that mine, and have been unable to find any more success since that time.

Tony LaRussa is the manager with the golden touch!

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The Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox, and Joe Torre Debate – Cox is Simply The Best

March 10, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Bleacher Fan and Babe Ruthless.

It is always nice to know that you have a boss who fully appreciates what you do. It is always nice to know that he has your back when speaking to the media. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a boss who puts you in a position to succeed, and if you do not succeed that first time, will still give you words of encouragement to succeed the next time? Who is the guy, you ask, and why can’t I work for him? Well, it is none other than Atlanta Braves manager Bobby Cox.

Cox enters the 2010 campaign with 2,413 wins, the fourth most of all time. From 1991-2005, his Braves teams won 14 consecutive division championships. One of the main criticisms of the Braves during Cox’s tenure is that his teams have only one World Series. While that is an unavoidable fact, winning so many consecutive division titles is unprecedented, and will likely never be done again.

One of the great things about Bobby Cox, and what makes him popular with his players, is that he always has their back before, during, and after the game. He is barking after every pitch as he tries to get every inch of the strike zone to go his team’s way. His all time record of 151 ejections back that up, and trust me, many of those ejections were because of him arguing balls and strikes.

I had the opportunity to meet Bobby back in the summer of 1999. I won a contest to become part of the media for one game. Once I overcame my feeling of shock and awe from watching batting practice from behind home plate, I looked for Bobby and found him fielding throws from the position players at first base. I mingled my way over that way and waited for him. As he started walking toward the dugout, I caught his attention and asked if he had a moment to spare. He said, “Sure son.” We talked for three or four minutes. It was more of a conversation than a Q&A. Former Braves pitcher Kevin Millwood had been selected to the All-Star team that day and he was raving about Millwood. He also stated that he still had the same passion for the game that day that he had coming up to the big leagues as a New York Yankee (one of his only faults… that’s for you, Babe Ruthless). He demonstrated a passion I still believe he has to this day. I gained a greater appreciation for Bobby Cox that day. Here I was, a 17-year-old skinny kid (at the time anyway!) and he spoke to me like I had been around the game for 40 years. He treats people with respect and treats the game of baseball with respect. As I type this, I am looking at a photograph I have with Bobby. It is framed and is hanging up on the wall in my den. He has that first base glove on. That is Bobby Cox for you!

This season is set to be Bobby Cox’s swan song as he plans to hang up the spikes. It is going to be a sad day for Braves fans, and a day this particular Braves fan is dreading. It will be the end of an era. With all due respect to guys like Joe Torre and Tony LaRussa, #6 is simply the best. You cannot replace a guy like Bobby Cox. He and the Braves would love nothing more than for him to go out a winner.

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