The Lowering Wins for the MLB HOF Debate… 300 is THE Standard

June 22, 2010

Read the opposing argument from Bleacher Fan.

You’d be surprised by the amount of behind the scenes conversation in the past week or so regarding today’s debate.

What started as a vocal debate about whether or not we’ll ever see another 300 game winner in Major League Baseball turned into a conversation about whether or not the threshold for Hall of Fame credentials should be lowered to 275 wins from the current total of 300.

I must be clear that I do feel that there will be some starting pitchers in the future who will win less than 300 wins that will likely make a trip to Cooperstown. C.C. Sabathia is a name that comes to mind, though Sports Geek believes it’s a possibility that Mr. Sabathia could chase 300 wins. I see no reason, however, to lower the “threshold” to 275 wins. For one reason, it just doesn’t sound as forward and clear as 300 anyway!

There are certain landmarks that must be reached in baseball in which you essentially guarantee yourself a trip to the Hall of Fame after you hang up the jersey. Getting 3,000 hits is certainly one of them. To a slightly lesser extent, hitting 500 home runs without steroid accusations (Bonds, Palmerio, McGwire) is another. And, as of right now, so is achieving 300 wins.

As Babe Ruthless stated in his intro, there are currently 24 members in the 300 win club, with Randy Johnson being the last one to join when he won his 300th game last season. While there is no specific reward given to the members, it’s a personal plateau reached, and an extremely difficult honor to accomplish. Lowering the threshold to 275 essentially slaps the face of 24 current or future Hall of Fame pitchers. Obviously, you don’t take away anything statistically from them, but do you really think people are going to start calling it “The 275 Win Club.”

Let’s look at Philadelphia Phillies pitcher Jamie Moyer. He’s a solid major league pitcher who has had a lengthy career. He’s extremely well-respected by his peers, and who wouldn’t respect him? It’s an accomplishment in itself to still be a starting pitcher for one of the better teams in baseball at the age of 47, and it’s even more amazing due to his style of being a finesse pitcher. He is ignoring the calls of Father Time by getting batters out who are half his age. Hats off to him. He currently has 265 wins in his lengthy career. If he gets ten more wins, does he warrant a Hall of Fame nomination? He does not. Look at his career. He’s made ONE all star team. He has a career ERA of 4.23, with it never being below three in any season. Yet, if you go by Bleacher Fan’s proposed rules, and if Moyer gets ten more wins, he will have reached The Threshold, and warrants an automatic spot in Cooperstown. Do you really feel Jamie Moyer is a Hall of Fame pitcher? Has he ever been considered the best at his position for even ONE season?

Let’s assume you just finished your 30th year at your place of work. And let’s say that after thirty years on the job management gives you a nice gold watch and a vacation to the destination of your choice. When you come back, you find an email in your inbox saying the company is going to start honoring those who have been on the job for 25 years by giving them the same reward. How do you feel? Yes, that doesn’t take away the time you have put in and everything you have accomplished, but part of you probably feels cheated. It’s the same situation with this argument.

No one will ever take away 300 wins. It’s a legitimate personal accomplishment shared by only 24 men in this world. To cheapen their accomplishment would be totally disrespectful, and would be a step in the wrong direction.
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The Best Sports Father-Son(s) Debate… One Hull of a Good Hockey Tandem

June 21, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Loyal Homer and Sports Geek.

I hope all you dads out there had a great Father’s Day yesterday!

In light of the ‘holiday’ (which is one of the most important all year), we the writers at The Sports Debates got into a lengthy conversation about which father and son tandem was the best to have played their respective sports during their respective times.

There were many worthy names that came into discussion – Griffey, Manning, Earnhardt, Bonds, etc. But with each family name brought up, there was usually one of the two (or three) whose accomplishments overshadowed the others.

For the Mannings, Peyton and Eli may have both been Super Bowl MVPs, but Archie was little more than a good quarterback for a lousy team. Archie is known more as being the father of Peyton and Eli than he is for being the quarterback of the New Orleans Saints.

Likewise, Dale Jr. is nowhere near the driver that his father was, a point discussed in a previous debate on this site.

In most cases, the name is made ‘great’ by one family member, but only made ‘good’ by the other. You could even go so far as to argue the point that the ‘good’ one is only perceived as such because of the legacy he shares with his family member.

There is one exception to this rule, though, which makes them the de facto BEST father-son tandem to have played in any sport – The NHL’s Bobby and Brett Hull.

For the entire second half of the 20th century (that’s 50 years to all you mathematicians out there), the NHL was DOMINATED by a Hull (two if you include Bobby’s brother, Dennis, who had a very impressive career in his own right). Beginning with Bobby’s rookie season in 1958, and not ending until Brett’s retirement in 2006, the name Hull was synonymous with the NHL.

Both Hulls were named to the list of the Greatest 100 Hockey Players of All Time. Bobby was named the eighth greatest ever, while Brett comes in at 64. While 64 may not seem THAT impressive (although even being considered the 64th best player of all-time is still a great accomplishment), this list was actually published while Brett was still an active player in 1998, and he still had eight years remaining in his career. It should also be noted that he was one of only 13 active players to be named to the list.

Between the two of them, Bobby and Brett also share three Stanley Cups (one for Bobby and two for Brett), three Hart Memorial Trophies for being the league MVP (two for Bobby and one for Brett), two Lady Byng Memorial Trohpies (one apiece), and 20 All-Star selections (twelve for Bobby and eight for Brett).

It was their ability to score goals, however, that truly set them apart.

When Bobby Hull retired in 1980, he had scored 610 goals in the NHL, and at the time was ranked second all-time in goals scored for the league. Although several players have surpassed his total in the 30 years since he last skated in the NHL, he still ranks ranks 15th all-time. If you add to that already impressive total the additional 303 goals that Bobby scored while playing for the Winnipeg Jets of the World Hockey Association, he actually ranks second all-time with 913 combined goals scored as a professional hockey player, falling short only of his teammate Gordie Howe’s combined total of 975.

Not even the “Great One”, Wayne Gretzky, scored that many goals in his professional career.

And speaking of players who have since passed Bobby Hulls career NHL goal total, Brett Hull retired in 2006 with 741 goals scored, placing him CURRENTLY as third on the all-time NHL list, behind Gretzky and Howe.

There is no other father and son tandem in all of professional sports in which both father AND son can claim that same level of success during their times as active players.

Rather than having their careers and/or legacies enhanced because of their lineage, it was their lineage that was enhanced because of their separate careers. Unlike the other so-called great father and son tandems, Bobby and Brett Hull were both STAND-ALONE legends in their times. Their careers were separately GREAT (not just good), which is why they are the only father and son tandem to BOTH have been inducted into their sport’s Hall of Fame.

Bobby and Brett Hull were BOTH champions. They were BOTH MVPs. They were BOTH statistically among the best to have ever played their sport. And now, they are BOTH in the Hall of Fame.

The Hulls stand alone (together) as the best father and son tandem ever.

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The Best Sports Father-Son(s) Debate… Like Father Like Sons

June 21, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Loyal Homer and Bleacher Fan.

For a Father’s Day themed article I was tempted to choose the New York Yankees as my subject. While it would appease the ever-relentless “Babe” here at TSD, it is also not THAT long ago that the Yankees famously became Pedro Martinez’s “Daddy.”

But, I decided it was impossible to pass up the opportunity to talk about one of the rare family combinations in the history of sports – the Mannings.

It seems that sports are full of great father-son legacies. Bobby and Barry Bonds come to mind, though they leave quickly due to the son’s choice to cheat. My colleagues have picked excellent examples as well. But very few times are the father and sons both great people and amazing athletes. Ever rarer, it seems, are the sons able to surpass the father’s accomplishments.

It is no secret that the New Orleans Saints, until recently, struggled mightily as a franchise. Those struggles began from the team’s inception back in 1967. It was not until 1971 that the team was able to draft the quarterback and leader it believed would lead to championships – second overall pick Archie Manning, the patriarch of the most successful and impressive father-son lineage in sports history.

Though Archie definitely did not experience ultimate success at a professional level, aside from two Pro Bowl appearances and an Offensive Player of the Year award in 1978, his understanding of the quarterback position helped propel his two sons, Peyton and Eli, to Super Bowl success. It takes a special kind of relationship for that to happen.

Many dads, if they were professional football players left unfulfilled when it comes to a championship, may choose to parent their sons differently than Archie. They may choose to push their sons, force football upon them, drill them nonstop, and micro-manage their lives to create the type of success they never had. Archie’s approach, if you listen to his sons tell the story, was much more laid back. In fact, Archie was so obsessed with football when he was a youngster that his parents nearly made him quit. Informed by that experience, he took a measured interest in shaping his children’s football skills.

In the media firestorm that surrounds every Super Bowl, no story was hotter last January that Archie – favorite son of New Orleans – rooting for his genetic son, Peyton – quarterback for the Indianapolis Colts. While many writers and talking faces from myriad news outlets concentrated on this supposed controversy, the quiet reality is that Archie’s allegiance was never really in question.

In many ways, “quiet reality” is a nice descriptive phrase for the formative years Archie’s sons remember. In the run up to the most recent Super Bowl, Peyton was asked about this dad’s influence and what he remembered about growing up as Archie’s son. Peyton gave a simple and revealing answers, saying, “When we were kids, while waiting on my dad, my brother (Eli) and I used to go out on the Superdome turf and play,” he said. “We’d get a big ball of tape, wad it up, and play one-on-one, 100 yard football. My father would always come out onto the field to get us and we’d watch him sign autographs for fans on the way out of games.”

Ever-steady, Archie instilled a natural leadership and work ethic his sons credit him for. It is that presence that has helped propel Peyton to one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the game despite the many seasons he remaining in his right arm, and propelled Eli to the franchise face for one of the most storied and successful NFL teams ever. Both sons are Super Bowl winners, both sons are top quarterbacks in their era, and both credit the steady, quiet leadership of their dad.

The Manning family wins this argument not just because of the quality of performance and character, but because two is better than one. The fact that Archie heads a family of winners and taught winning, even though he never really experienced any winning at a professional level, underscores what a remarkable story the Manning “father-sons” legacy is in the history of sports.

No one can be a perfect dad (sorry, Dad), and I’m sure Archie wasn’t the perfect dad who made all of the perfect decisions every time. I’m sure there were times where he couldn’t make the kids’ games growing up, or had to play on a birthday. My point is, it is often possible to gain insight into a father’s effectiveness by observing his kids. The Manning brothers are articulate, full of humor, dedicated to success, and good citizens (check out their charitable giving – of time and money – after Katrina). It’s easy to sit and review only stats and on-field performance for this debate. But when truly evaluating sons as people who happen to play a sport, it sure seems like Archie Manning and his sons Peyton and Eli are unmatched in their life – and sports – success.

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The Best Sports Father-Son(s) Debate… NASCAR Royalty

June 21, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Bleacher Fan.

I hope all you fathers out there had a wonderful Father’s Day! I’m pretty sure Sports Geek and Bleacher Fan did! In honor of Father’s Day, The Sports Debates is going to do a debate fathers in sports. There’s certainly a wide range of angles, and there’s some good father-son combinations that we have left off our list of three arguments. My argument is going to tackle a famous family in NASCAR. I very easily could have chosen the Petty family and focused on Richard Petty, also known as The King. But instead, I believe the Earnhardt family deserves my focus.

Obviously, Dale Earnhardt is a name familiar to almost all sports fans. Following in the footsteps of his father, Ralph, who raced in the 1950’s and 1960’s, Dale Earnhardt, Sr. would go on to set numerous NASCAR records in his lifetime. He was a polarizing figure as he had both his fans and his haters. But it’s hard to argue his impact in NASCAR, both during his life and after his tragic death. He won 76 races all time while in the Winston Cup Series (now the Sprint Cup Series) and seven series championships, which is currently tied with Petty for most all time. He’s actually the guy who made me a fan of the sport. I was a late bloomer to NASCAR, which is odd since I am from the South. But I became enamored with the driver of the black GM Goodwrench number three around the time Dale Sr. won his one and only Daytona 500 in 1998. Unfortunately, The Intimidator died in a tragic accident at the 2001 Daytona 500 (the driver who won the race, Michael Waltrip, was ironically driving for Dale Earnhardt, Inc.). His death changed the course of the sport, and was the impetus for producing safer devices for drivers, cars and tracks.

Dale Earnhardt, Jr. hasn’t had the same amount of success on the track as his father, but he’s still arguably the most popular driver in NASCAR, and perhaps in NASCAR history. He has won only 18 career races in the Sprint Cup Series. Other than winning the Daytona 500 in 2004, three years after the death of his father, Junior’s crowning achievement thus far was winning the Pepsi 400 in Daytona in July of 2001. It was the first race at Daytona since Dale Sr.’s death. It was truly an emotional moment for those in attendance, and for NASCAR fans watching across the country. I have friends who were there at Daytona International Speedway that night. They told me that there were people sobbing, and that the 150,000 fans in attendance didn’t want to leave.

Junior is still trying to build on the Earnhardt name. He’s yet to win his first series championship, and with the exception of a couple of years, he really hasn’t been a serious threat to do so. But combined with the tremendous success of his father, the Earnhardt’s truly are the strongest father-son combination in sports.

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The Unwelcome Return Debate… Boo-zer Deserves It

June 18, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Bleacher Fan and Babe Ruthless.

I admit that I had extreme difficulty finding someone to feature today. The fact that we are even discussing which player most deserved a rude greeting upon returning to a former team’s stadium is due to the fact that Manny Ramirez is making his first visit back to Fenway Park tonight, his first appearance there since being traded to the Dodgers at the deadline two years ago. I feel fairly certain that Manny will receive his share of boos over the weekend. But I really can’t write about his situation yet.

So I spent time contemplating the topic. Michael Vick? Nah, he got a fairly mixed reaction on his return trip to Atlanta. I called Sports Geek last night to toss around ideas, as I already knew who Babe Ruthless and Bleacher Fan were going to write about. We tossed around some ideas and finally Sports Geek came up with a name that Bleacher Fan is going to kick himself for not choosing… Carlos Boozer.

Boozer spent the first two years of his career with the Cleveland Cavaliers. After two productive seasons Boozer was set to make $695,000 in the third and final year of his initial rookie contract. Boozer was not happy about making so “little,” so the Cavs agreed to release the exclusive contractual rights to him in exchange for Boozer signing for the club’s full mid-level exception, which would have equaled been about $40M over six years. According to the Cavs, there was a verbal understanding that this was what both sides wanted. Unfortunately for the Cavs, that’s not what happened.

Just days after this verbal agreement was supposedly reached, Boozer signed an offer sheet with the Utah Jazz for $68M over six years. It was an offer that Cleveland had no shot at matching. Apparently Boozer wanted to play with the likes of Andrei Kirilenko and Raja Bell instead of a young LeBron James. And thus, in the blink of an eye, Carlos Boozer left the Cavs, and poor old Cleveland had nothing to show for it. (By the way, would the Cavs have possibly won a title by now with Boozer on the roster? Hmmmmm!).

Obviously, the city of Cleveland, and all Cavs fans, were irate. Then-team owner Gordon Gund issued a letter to fans explaining how the whole situation went down from his perspective. Basically he said that the organization put misguided trust in Carlos Boozer. Boozer became a hated man in Cleveland, a very passionate sports town. He was called a “backstabbing, double-crossing, money-grubbing Judas.”

Boozer claims that no agreement was ever reached with Cleveland. Who knows what really happened, though it is important to note that last year Boozer did actually say to a Chicago radio station, “I’d love to be a part of the Chicago Bulls.” This happened after a trade from Utah was supposedly imminent. The trade never happened, and he still remains with the Jazz.

In his first game back in Cleveland, Boozer deservedly received a rousing chorus of boos and insults thrown at him. Bleacher Fan, were you at this game? Even if you didn’t know the situation with Boozer before reading this debate, wouldn’t you boo him? If you would, you have millions of new friends in the state of Ohio.

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The Unwelcome Return Debate… Carl is a 4 Letter Word

June 18, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Bleacher Fan and Loyal Homer.

Carl Pavano is a bum! He disappointed, swindled, and lied to the New York Yankees and their fans. This guy deserves the type of reception Mets fans reserved for John Rocker. Each and every time he returns to the Bronx he should most definitely wear a cup, regardless of whether the trip has anything to do with baseball or not!

Normally stars elicit boos, jeers, and cold receptions in general from their former teams only when they leave town chasing a bigger contract or shooting their mouths off about their team. But Carl Pavano did neither of these things. His case is unique. The ire that Pavano provokes amongst Yankees fans is based mainly on all the things he didn’t do.

He didn’t lead the Yankees to their elusive 27th world championship (Editor’s Note: Okay, Babe, we get it. The Yanks win a lot.). He didn’t put up All-Star numbers, or even end of the rotation journey man numbers. For the most part, he didn’t even pitch! What he did do was spend hundreds of days on the DL and laugh all the way to the bank.

After rising to prominence with the Florida Marlins during a dominant 2003 postseason, he set career highs in 2004 posting an 18-8 record, a 3.00 ERA, and a 1.17 WHIP. That performance earned him his one and only nod to the All-Star team and put him in position to be the most coveted free agent of the 2004 offseason. Having previously settled for a handful of small one year contracts, Pavano was ready to cash in on a big pay day – and cash in he did! Although he entertained several suitors, the Yankees eventually won the bidding and landed the right-hander to the tune of a four year, $39.95M contract with a fifth year $13 million dollar club option for 2009. There was an excited buzz when Pavano joined a stable of talented hurlers, including Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, and Kevin Brown. But the anticipation of what Pavano could do for the Yanks in 2005 is where the magic ended because when he took the mound, and things took a turn for the worse.

The super talented ace-caliber pitcher the Yankees thought they paid for in Pavano was nowhere to be found. Instead what was forced upon the team was an oft injured bust.

Pavano’s first season with New York ended with a 4-6 record with a 4.77 ERA, not exactly the All-Star stat line he posted just one season earlier. Yankees’ fans were able to overlook this deplorable start as an anomaly, and set their hopes on the next season… except there wasn’t really a next season for Pavano. He sat out the entire 2006 season. That’s right, he failed to pitch in the majors throughout the entire second year of his contract, citing shoulder and elbow injuries. At one point it seemed as though he was actually going to make it back to the majors from his rehab stints, but things went from bad to worse when a few broken ribs and a lot of deception knocked him out for the whole season. With everyone’s patience running thin, and Pavano’s injured act growing tiresome, he did away with any pretense that he was a team player New York fans could rally behind and made the jump into full fledged villainy by lying to the team about an injury. Pavano hit the disabled list yet again, but this time it wasn’t because of a baseball action, but a car accident. An accident which he kept secret from the team until his broken ribs could not be kept under wraps any longer. The next season was better, but not by much. In 2007 Pavano was almost as nonexistent as he was in 2006, logging only 11 innings of work. Seriously, just 11 innings of work! And what did he get for 11 innings of work? $10M. For you math whizzes, that means he made more than $900,000 for every inning of work. During his final season with the Yankees in 2008 Pavano had a 4-2 record over seven starts, leaving the Yankees frustrated, disappointed, and downright embarrassed by the whole Pavano drama.

I am well aware that it is hard for anyone to have pity for the New York Yankees, but when it comes to Carl Pavano, the saga is exactly that – pitiful. Everyone knows that New York fans set huge expectations for players, but few have ever disappointed the way Carl Pavano did. He is truly despised in New York, and definitely gets a noteworthy negative reaction whenever he returns to the Bronx (in fact, it was subtitled for Yankees fans on one occasion). While the Bronx Bombers usually play the role of bully, it was Carl Pavano who has left a lasting legacy as the bad guy. So when he takes the field, and the fans rise to boo and throw things, it’s music and justice to many fan’s ears.

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The Unwelcome Return Debate… At Least the Prodigal Son Was Repentant

June 18, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Babe Ruthless and Loyal Homer.

No one in sports has burned his bridges after leaving a team or city more unabashedly than Terrell Owens.

Despite being one of the best wide receivers to have ever played the game (just ask him, he’ll tell you…), Owens is one of the least respected, least welcomed personalities in the entire NFL. Nowhere is that sentiment more strongly felt than in the cities of San Francisco, Philadelphia, and Dallas.

Owens is one of the rare people to whom the adage “actions speak louder than words” does not apply. Quite the contrary, actually. For Owens, it does not matter what his actions have been, it is his words that carry the greater volume, and the ringing echo of those selfish and arrogant words (usually spoken at the expense of others) lingers bitterly in each of TO’s former “hometowns.”

Whenever Owens joined a new team he enjoyed a very nice (albeit brief) honeymoon period. The teams were understandably excited to have Owens on their side of the ball, and Owens was (at least publicly) happy to have earned a HUGE paycheck to play for a team that really appreciated his absolute greatness (just ask him, he’ll tell you…).

Inevitably, though, the honeymoon would end, and that is when the REAL Terrell Owens would rear his head.

Here is a brief and incomplete rundown of Owens’ infamous escapades, and why the fans of those cities now perceive Owens as public enemy number one.

San Francisco: Owens never got along with quarterback Jeff Garcia, and even though he shared the field with his alleged idol, Jerry Rice, Owens felt slighted that the was not getting enough passes thrown his way. He didn’t seem to care that he was lining up with the greatest wide receiver ever to play the game, he felt he was more deserving of the ball. The simple fact that he was not on pace to catch 100 passes was intolerable for Owens.

His tirades played a major factor in Garcia’s ouster from the 49ers, and then, after having thrown his tantrums and demanded that he get his way, he skipped town for a sweeter deal in Philadelphia.

The feud with Garcia boiled to a head shortly after Owens left San Francisco, when, during a Playboy interview (Editor’s Note: Sorry, no link here. Heh.), Owens launched a personal attack against Garcia, calling him gay.

Owens has also publicly attacked Jerry Rice’s accomplishments, the DE FACTO greatest wide receiver to ever play the game. He has implied that Rice’s success is due more to his playing with quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Steve Young, and that Owens would have at least equaled, if not surpassed Rice’s results if he had been fortunate.

By commenting that Rice was fortunate to have played with “quality” quarterbacks, he was also criticizing Jeff Garcia, Donovan McNabb, and Tony Romo as not being of the same “quality” stock.

Philadelphia: Second verse, same as the first!

Once again, after frustrations mounted because Owens did not feel he was being treated with the respect he felt he deserved, as well as not having the on-field success he felt he was entitled to, he set out on another personal campaign to simply trash those things he didn’t agree with.

One of the biggest feuds in the NFL began after Owens made a comment that he “wasn’t the one who got tired in the (2004) Super Bowl,” implying that quarterback Donovan McNabb was the reason the team lost the game. He then further attacked McNabb by saying that the Eagles would have been undefeated if a guy like Brett Favre was quarterback. He attacked the Eagles as an organization for not recognizing his 100th touchdown catch, calling it a classless organization. He then stated that he did not care what the fans thought of him.

This was never more evident than when, at the close of the Eagles’ 2005 game against the rival Dallas Cowboys, Owens was seen leaving the stadium sporting a Michael Irvin Cowboys jersey.

After that, the city of brotherly love felt nothing but animosity towards Owens.

Dallas: Things went well in Dallas for a while, but old habits die hard, and Owens once again wore out his welcome. This time, it came as the result of Owens’ jealousy for the relationship between quarterback Tony Romo and Jason Witten.

Owens could not fathom how he, one of the most accomplished wide receivers of all time, could possibly have less catches that a tight end, and felt that Witten and Romo had agreed to draw up plays specifically to target Witten, slighting Owens in the process. This one ended with Owens and Witten having to be separated after a locker-room confrontation.

It seems like everywhere he has been, Owens managed to do nothing more than stir up controversy, alienate teammates, and alienate fans. His attitude of self-service has left a very bitter after-taste for fans of the 49ers, Eagles, and Cowboys, and while Eagles’ fans may feel it the strongest, there is no welcome-home party waiting in any of these cities whenever TO comes to town.

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The Tom Izzo Decision Debate Verdict

June 18, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Bleacher Fan.

I had a feeling this debate was going to bring out the fire in both Tom Izzo’s number one fan (Sports Geek) and a staunch Cleveland Cavalier fan (Bleacher Fan). It’s safe to say that I was right. So, as I watch the Lakers’ postgame celebration while writing this, I will break down the arguments and give my final rendering.

As has been EXTREMELY well documented, both on this Web site and in various conversations over the years, Sports Geek is a huge Tom Izzo fan. Perhaps Sports Geek gets some type of financial supplement every time the word “Izzo” is mentioned! But, he has simply stated that Izzo is a practical coach, and that is something I agree with completely. He recruits good players obviously, or else he wouldn’t have coached six different teams to Final Four appearances. But he also recruits good character guys and good leaders for the most part. Look at all of the team guys he has had over the years… Mateen Cleaves, Morris Peterson, Maurice Ager, etc. The one thing I will disagree with is that Izzo is in the same conversation with John Wooden and Dean Smith. Yes, he’s made six Final Fours and won a national championship. But he’s won just one. And keep in mind he’s only been head coach for fifteen years at this point. Perhaps he is on his way to establishing that type of legacy, but not at this point. However, that “miscalculation” doesn’t have a real impact on the point the argument is making.

The stronger point is that Izzo likes to be in control, and it is highly questionable that he could expect the type of “team control” that he currently has in East Lansing. And I use the word “control” in a completely complimentary manner. Let’s face it, NBA players have the control on almost every team. It’s a player’s league, and dare I say, a selfish league. In the NBA Izzo would have less control over the type of players that end up on his team.

Bleacher Fan takes the opposing view and it’s a highly critical view of Izzo, essentially calling him a coward. What the majority of sports fans seem to agree on is the fact that not knowing who is going to LeBron James’ employer this time next month played a huge part in Izzo’s decision. If Izzo knew for a fact that James would stay with Cleveland, would it have tilted this decision the other way? Maybe… who knows? We’ll never know.

I have never liked comparing other college coaches who made the jump to the NBA to coaches who are considering. Obviously, Rick Pitino and John Calipari were big time flops in the NBA and are much more suited for the college game. But there really is no comparison of the three. Calipari and Pitino, at the time of hiring by their professional teams, appeared to have the style fit for the NBA. They had the “flair” and the “swagger.” When I think of Tom Izzo, I think of the words “grit” and “hard-nosed.” He’s a no nonsense kind of coach.

The bottom line is this – Izzo just didn’t want to take a chance of taking the reins of a LeBron-less team. Bleacher Fan mentions the fact that the Cavs would still be a highly talented team with or without LBJ. Yet, these are the same players that both Bleacher Fan and Sports Geek have personally said provide little help to James on the court. Why would Izzo want to leave the comforts of East Lansing to move to a team that could very well have many unknowns? Maybe the money is better in the NBA. In this particular instance, the money would have been significantly more. But Izzo doesn’t strike me as a guy who necessarily cares about the money. The fact that the money doesn’t appear to be important to him ironically shows me that he just wouldn’t have fit in a league filled with players who quite frankly care about money.

Thus, it should be no surprise that Loyal Homer chooses the side of loyalty and awards the victory to Sports Geek.

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The Tom Izzo Decision Debate

June 17, 2010

Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Bleacher Fan.

For the past week we’ve watched the story involving Tom Izzo. One day we got the feeling that the courtship of Izzo by Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert was a desperate attempt by an owner to get a big name coach. Then, as time went on, the sentiment was that Izzo was actually going to take the job, and that Sports Geek was going to have Christmas in June (for those who don’t know, Sports Geek has a man-crush on Izzo and actually wrote a piece on him earlier this year). Finally, shortly before the NBA Finals game began Tuesday night, Izzo announced that he would bypass a chance to coach in the NBA and would become a “lifer” at Michigan State.

I don’t think many people were shocked at this decision, but TSD thinks there is some debate as to whether or not it was the right decision. That’s where Sports Geek and Bleacher Fan come in.

Sports Geek will argue that staying at East Lansing was a wise decision while Bleacher Fan will argue that Izzo is making a mistake by not taking the Cleveland job.

I’m looking forward to reading both of their arguments, as they both have tremendous insight to both the Cavs and the Spartans!

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The Tom Izzo Decision Debate… Izzo Isno Mercenary

June 17, 2010

Read the opposing argument from Bleacher Fan.

It has been well documented in this space that I am a fan of Tom Izzo. In fact, the other writers here at TSD poke relentless fun and me both in their articles and during production meetings because of it. For the record, I have no ties to Michigan State University or to Izzo personally. I do, however, have a great deal of healthy respect for the man. Simply, he is one of the best coaches ever in the history of college basketball. Exactly half of his teams have made the Final Four in the last 12 seasons. Twelve! Outside of John Wooden and Dean Smith – two legends – only Izzo has had more sustained, consistent success. It is a powerful and true statement.

It makes perfect sense for Izzo to stay put in East Lansing and continue building a program he has engineered to national prominence. Izzo is a practical coach; you see it in his decision making during games and his management of various personalities on this team. Even in recruiting. Some coaches go after the elite type players where academics are a question mark. Not Izzo. Izzo recruits players for four years. He expects that. It is a rarity, but a practicality, that college basketball is largely missing.

If a person is one of the best active coaches in college basketball, and has the opportunity to become one of the best in history, why would they potentially compromise that rare legacy based on twice the salary and a professional superstar’s silence?

As alluded to already, Izzo is in rarified air when it comes to the greatest college basketball coaches of all time.

John Wooden, one of my all-time favorites, coached at two universities in his entire career. Few remember his early days at Indiana State (1946-1948), but his legendary coaching days at UCLA from 1948-1975 are well documented. His level of sustained success as a coach in college basketball is thought to be unapproachable again. His ten national championships will likely never be repeated by any coach.

Dean Smith has the second most wins all time as a head coach in college basketball, and coach North Carolina into national prominence from 1961 to 1997. He won national championships 11 years apart, and was a regular winner of conference and regional tournaments. He is an institution in the state of North Carolina. His ability to stay in one spot and be successful, though, has extended his institution status well beyond the confines of a single state and promoted him to legend throughout basketball.

The reality is, Tom Izzo is in the conversation with these coaches. Part of the successful model Izzo is following by making the right decision to stay at Michigan State is coaching at one institution for a long period of time… like Wooden and Smith. He is still relatively young at 55 years of age, and has only been head coaching at Michigan State for 15 seasons. He will have ample opportunity to win additional championship and reach many more Final Fours. When all is said and done, Izzo will be in the conversation as one of the five best coaches in college basketball history. If he were to abandon this path to assured legendary status now, his accidental ambition would be compromised. The potential of coaching LeBron James and winning an NBA title simply is not worth that.

Another reason Izzo is smart for staying at MSU is because his style of coaching is far better suited for college basketball than professional basketball. Simply, the motivations for collegiate athletes and professional athletes (who often become mercenaries, bouncing from team to team for more money or playing time) are different.

College athletes do not have leverage with coaches. Coaches are in control and can punish, reward, inspire, and motivate accordingly. Izzo is a master at this. When he needed to bench his best player, point guard Kalin Lucas, early last season for not being the type of team leader the team needed, he did. He had every possible button to push at his disposal. In the professional ranks, can any of us imagine Izzo getting away with benching LeBron – either from the fans OR media OR players? If Izzo believes that is the right decision to make, in college he has the power to make it. In the NBA, a notoriously and frustratingly player’s league, he does not.

Professional athletes are mercenaries. Loyalty to team or cause takes a back seat to earning potential and contract value nearly every time. Rare is the case when professional basketball players turn down a big contract because they BELIEVE in what their team is doing. Izzo is the type of coach that must never be in a position where he has to convince a player to believe. Trust is important. Back to our previous analogy, would LeBron trust Izzo that sitting on the bench, healthy, is in the best interests of the team? No.

The NBA is full of players that demand more money or more playing time, and the Cleveland Cavaliers are no random exception to this obvious truth. The quality of character which Izzo pursues in the players he recruits would be a more difficult pursuit in the NBA. Izzo would simply be a coach in the NBA, not a coach and GM as he is in college. The difference is stark and no easy adjustment.

Despite Cavs’ owner Dan Gilbert’s best efforts, Izzo is not the type of coach to simply be plugged in to coach up professional assets. He’s an emotional person, he’s a believer. The NBA strips players and coaches of the idealism college basketball thrives on, and Tom Izzo has mastered. Yes, Izzo made the right decision by staying true to who he is as a person – a legendary college basketball coach in the making.

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