March 31, 2010
Read the opposing arguments from Loyal Homer and Babe Ruthless.
If sporting events were played on paper, rather than on the field, then we would be getting ready for a Final Four that, besides Duke, also featured Kentucky, Syracuse, and Kansas. Instead we are all getting ready to watch one featuring Butler, Michigan State, and West Virginia. Projection is an inexact science, and as Babe Ruthless points out in his argument, analysts get it wrong just as often as (if not more than) they get it right. Likewise, the challenge of projecting an unproven athlete’s success is just as much guesswork as it is science.
That is why debates such as these are so much fun. There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to prediction and projection, there is only speculation. Only Tim Tebow can ultimately decide if he will be a successful NFL quarterback. All the breakdowns and analysis in the world will not change that inevitable outcome. Still, it does not stop us from trying our hardest at predicting the future!
With that in mind, Loyal Homer is absolutely correct. College success is not a predictor for NFL success. However, it should also be noted that having an unconventional throwing motion is also not a predictor for failure. Just because a quarterback entering the NFL is not considered a pure “passer” does not mean that he will fail.
Bernie Kosar, one of the most successful quarterbacks of the 1980s had a side-arm delivery when he threw the ball. If I were coaching Pop Warner and I saw a kid trying to mimic Kosar’s motion, I would a) cringe, and b) work with him in trying to correct it. However, Kosar made it work.
Another more recent example of a quarterback who has found success in the NFL without relying on a strong passing game is Ben Roethlisberger.
When the Steelers won the Super Bowl in 2005 it was not on the arm of Roethlisberger. During the season, he threw the ball only 268 times that season. By comparison, there were 25 other quarterbacks in the NFL that season with more than 300 passing attempts, led by Brett Favre who had more than 600. Of those completions, Roethlisberger accounted for only 2,385 passing yards (behind 20 other quarterbacks) and 17 touchdowns (behind 13 other quarterbacks).
Even though Roethlisberger was not called upon to be a “passer” in 2005, he helped lead his team to the Super Bowl and is now considered one of the most successful quarterbacks in the game today.
I am not trying to draw comparisons between Roethlisberger and Tebow (I actually think that is the LAST person Tebow would want to be compared with right now). I am simply bringing up the point that a quarterback can be successful without having to rely on a fundamentally “sound” passing game.
It is for that reason that I am awarding the debate to Babe Ruthless.
As Babe Ruthless points out, Tebow possesses other intangible qualities that CAN translate from college into professional success. Namely, he is a WINNER and a proven LEADER (qualities that many people in the NFL severely lack).
You can coach a player on how to change his throwing mechanics. You can help him to study film and learn how to read defenses better. You can teach him how to change his grip on the ball to allow for a cleaner release. But you CANNOT teach him how to be a winner or a leader.
Is Tebow a good fit for EVERY team in the NFL? No, but what quarterback is? That does not automatically mean he is a BAD fit for every team. It may take a few years before he is ready to actually run an NFL offense while he perfects his new and improved throwing style, and that is okay. Aaron Rodgers did not start right out of the gate and he has been one of the best quarterbacks of the past two seasons. However, when the time finally does come and Tebow walks out onto the field one Sunday afternoon, the coach can be confident in the fact that his quarterback knows how to win.
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The Tim Tebow as a Pro QB Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, Ben Roethlisberger, Bernie Kosar sidearm, bleacher fan, draft, football, loyal homer, NFL, sports, sports arguments, Sports Debates, sports geek, Tebow as a pro quarterback, Tebow in the NFL, tebow throwing motion, the sports debates, Tim Tebow | 
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Posted by Bleacher Fan
March 30, 2010
Read the opposing arguments from Loyal Homer and Babe Ruthless.
Despite Thom Brennaman’s recommendations, I have not yet had the opportunity to improve my life with twenty minutes – or even just five minutes – in Tim Tebow’s presence. What I have had the opportunity to do is to watch Tebow go on to complete one of the greatest careers in the history of college football. He has won a Heisman Trophy, has been named the AP Player of the Year, and has broken several college football records, all capped off with two BCS National Championships.
In addition to his remarkable performance on the field, Tebow is generally regarded as a person of high character. But even with his on-field dominance and all around good-guy persona, there has not been a more polarizing character coming out of the college football ranks for a very long time.
There is just no such thing as a middle-of-the-road opinion on Tim Tebow. Whether fan, analyst, scout, or player, EVERYONE has an opinion on Tebow – and they are almost ALL extreme.
Even now, as we get ready for the NFL Draft (which is only one month away) the Tim Tebow debate continues to rage on, and it has NFL analysts and scouts chiming-in with their assessment of Tebow.
Following a highly-publicized Senior Bowl performance where Tebow was clearly uncomfortable while running a “pro-style” offense, his draft projection came into question. Many scouts and analysts in the anti-Tebow camp have discussed the problems in Tebow’s throwing mechanics, citing that as a major obstacle that will prevent him from becoming a successful NFL quarterback. They have been very vocal about criticizing his play, arguing that his success in the college game will not translate into NFL success. Adding to that criticism are the recent comments from a former Florida Gators teammate of Tebow’s, wide receiver Deonte Thompson, who implied that Tebow was not a “real” quarterback.
For his part, Tebow has put forth a great amount of effort in changing his throwing motion, but many question whether or not it will be enough.
On the flip side of this issue are many other well-respected voices in the NFL who believe that Tebow has proven himself a winner. They whole-heartedly believe Tebow will be a success in the NFL ranks. Former Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy even went so far as to use the word “great” in his assessment of how Tebow will perform as a pro.
Now it is time for The Sports Debates to weigh-in on the Tebow debate: Will Tim Tebow be successful as a quarterback in the NFL?
Babe Ruthless will argue on Tebow’s behalf by trying to prove that Tebow will make the transition into the NFL and become a successful quarterback. Loyal Homer will argue to the contrary, providing evidence that Tebow will not find success among the professional ranks.
Finally, before we begin, let us all bow our heads and pray…
1 Comment | The Tim Tebow as a Pro QB Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, bleacher fan, College Football, Deonte Thompson, football, loyal homer, NCAA, NCAAF, NFL, NFL Draft, opinions of Tim Tebow, sports, sports arguments, Sports Debates, sports geek, Tebow change throwing motion, Tebow not a real quarterback, Tebow pray before Wonderlic, Tebow struggles at senior bowl, Tebow will be great in the NFL, the sports debates, Thom Brennaman, Tim Tebow, Tim Tebow as an NFL quarterback, tony dungy | Permalink
Posted by Bleacher Fan
March 30, 2010
Read the opposing argument from Loyal Homer.
Let’s role play for a minute (don’t worry, it’s nothing kinky). I will take the role of an NFL scout, and you will act as an NFL general manager. As the draft approaches our team has a gaping hole at the quarterback position and I come to you with this news –“We have found a hidden gem in this year’s draft.”
This player is incredible. He has the physical tools of a young Donavan McNabb, the leadership of Drew Brees, and media presence of Peyton Manning. He has proven he can handle the pressure of big game situations. He has national awards and multiple national championships to boot. Oh, and here is the kicker, he is actually underrated. He might even be around until the third or fourth round.
Does that scenario sound too good to be true? Well it’s not. Tim Tebow matches the criteria above, and yet we are still debating his ability to be a pro quarterback in the NFL.
Tim Tebow is the complete package. He possesses a wealth of talent and the three “I”s – intensity, integrity, and intelligence – as well. His style of play is physical, intense, and unpredictable. Although he is not the prototypical speedy scrambling quarterback (like Michael Vick or Vince Young), he is still a threat to tuck the ball and fight for yardage on the ground, especially in the red zone. Even his critics, including Mel Kiper, Jr., admit he is great at moving with the ball in his hands. The fact that Tebow is a one-man-wildcat offense should be an offensive coordinator’s dream because his skills open up the field and make it difficult for opposing defenses to prepare.
Still many of his detractors sell him short and view him as a tight end or fullback rather than a quarterback. I will admit that he could play those positions, but he will ultimately be more valuable bringing his unique style of play to the quarterback position. Some analysts have even made comparisons between Tebow and former Tampa Bay Buccaneers’ goal line legend, Mike Alstott. That is not a negative, either. Obviously, I think he is capable of much more, but at the very least I will agree that he would be formidable on the ground. His intense, physical style of play can also get him hurt. But the best quarterbacks mix it up with the defense every now and then for the benefit of the team (see Peyton Manning throwing blocks on running plays).
Some of the best attributes Tim Tebow brings to the table are his intangibles. A front office that drafts Tebow can breath easy knowing they are not going to wake up to ESPN reporting that he shot himself in the leg at a strip club or started a vicious cat fighting ring in his back yard (I figured dog fighting was overdone, and Tebow strikes me more as a cat man anyway.) Don’t get me wrong, Tebow will make headlines for his off-the-field actions, but those headlines are more likely to be about his faith or community involvement. Recently, he made headlines for asking for a moment of prayer before taking the Wonderlic Exam at the NFL combine. While this brought him the ire of some in the media, and at least one cat call of “shut the [fudge] up!” from another would-be draftee, it’s telling of his character. If the biggest distractions surrounding your quarterback – who is often the face of a franchise – are his requests for prayer and what Bible verses he has on his eye black, it is a safe assumption that the coach and owner are not going to lose a whole lot of sleep worrying about their quarterback’s personal life (the Steelers’ front office should get hazard pay for their loss of sleep due to the shenanigans of Ben Roethlisberger and his apparent life coach, Charlie Sheen.).
Tebow’s leadership is also a major attribute. He has been a vocal leader on championship teams since his high school days. Carolina Panthers’ head coach John Fox said of Tebow’s leadership in high school and college, “You look at those types of things and he’s shown the ability to lead men, albeit young men, but they’re still men. In fact, that might be harder.” His ability to lead can anchor any number of teams that seem to be adrift in their division without passion or vision. Teams like Carolina, Buffalo, and Cleveland could all use a strong leadership presence to breathe new life into stagnant offenses.
The man even turns negatives into positives. Take the criticism about his throwing motion for example. It is perceived to be his Achilles Heel and is touted as the biggest weakness of his game. Sure, Tebow had a throwing motion slower than a 1920s windup baseball pitcher. And yes, all that time would give blitzing defenders an eternity to see how much turf they could force feed the rookie quarterback. But he has made all that a virtual non-factor by creating a new, more compact delivery. Let that set in for a minute. The guy hears criticism about a weakness and takes proactive steps to fix it. He could have pulled a prima donna act and declared there was nothing wrong with his mechanics. But instead he responds with action. That impresses me, and it appears to be impressing NFL teams, as more seem to be taking the QB more seriously every day.
In the end, no one will know how he will turn out until he’s given a chance, but it seems increasingly clear that he will be given a chance at quarterback. When it comes to predicting NFL success analysts get it wrong just as much, if not even more, than they get it right. Six other quarterbacks were selected before Tom Brady the year he was drafted. It is always a guessing game. In the end, the only basis for evaluating how a player actually performs in real life situations is to take a look at their college days. Tebow was the best of the best at Florida. The smart money is on his unconventional success in the NFL.
5 Comments | The Tim Tebow as a Pro QB Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, bleacher fan, College Football, Deonte Thompson, football, loyal homer, NCAA, NCAAF, NFL, NFL Draft, opinions of Tim Tebow, sports, sports arguments, Sports Debates, sports geek, Tebow change throwing motion, Tebow not a real quarterback, Tebow pray before Wonderlic, Tebow struggles at senior bowl, Tebow will be great in the NFL, the sports debates, Thom Brennaman, Tim Tebow, Tim Tebow as an NFL quarterback, tony dungy | Permalink
Posted by Babe Ruthless
March 30, 2010
Read the opposing argument from Babe Ruthless.
I know everyone from sea to shining sea has at some point grown exasperated at the constant published stories regarding former Florida Gator quarterback Tim Tebow. By now, we have all heard every Tim Tebow feel-good story. If you pay attention to any type of sports media you have heard them all. Now imagine you live approximately 160 miles from Gainesville, Florida – like I do – and those stories are repeatedly told.
Now, I’m a fan of Tim Tebow the person. He has used his position to reach out to those who need to be reached. Surely no one can fault his effort on that end, even if you get tired of hearing about it. But today’s debate is not about the off-the-field Tim Tebow. It is about his performance on the field, and whether or not it translates to success at the next level. Tim Tebow will not be a successful pro QB.
Last week, quite a stir was created in Gainesville when current Florida wide receiver Deonte Thompson said he was looking forward to playing with a “real quarterback.” Now, I fully believe that Thompson did not mean to intentionally slight Tebow, but Urban Meyer still took offense at the quote being reported… which led to a rather humorous rant, and was followed by a private apology. Intentional or not, an interesting point was brought up by Thompson. Thompson is right, whether or not he meant to be negative about Tebow.
Success on the collegiate level does not always translate to success in the NFL. My favorite example ever to back this up might be former Florida State quarterback Charlie Ward. During Ward’s senior season, he threw for over 3,000 yards and 27 touchdowns while leading the Seminoles to the national championship. He won the Heisman trophy that season and is mentioned as having one of the greatest seasons ever by a single player in the history of college football. But because of his smaller stature (he was generously listed at 6-feet 2-inches, 190 pounds), he was not drafted by the NFL. Instead found some success as a point guard in the NBA, mainly with the New York Knicks. Much like Ward, Tebow is revered for his college success. But AT BEST, it is questionable how his style of play fits in the NFL.
Many of the designed plays for Tebow in Meyer’s spread offense called for him to, quite simply, take the snap out of the shotgun and just run over someone. That is not happening in the NFL. In college he very rarely took snaps under center, and that is something he has to work at this offseason. He actually struggled with it during Senior Bowl practice earlier this year.
It iha also been well-publicized that Tebow has been working to change his throwing motion. He unveiled it at Florida’s pro-day a couple of weeks ago. It is all well and good to showcase that in a “pro-day” event that is set up for the player to succeed. But this new throwing motion is untested in games or against professional athletes.
Besides, both Todd McShay and Mel Kiper, Jr. say Tebow will not be a good quarterback. All three of us can’t be wrong, can we?
1 Comment | The Tim Tebow as a Pro QB Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, bleacher fan, is tebow an nfl quarterback, loyal homer, meyer apologizes, meyer confronts reporter, sports, Sports Debates, sports geek, tebow pro day, tebow throwing motion, the sports debates, Tim Tebow, tim tebow debates | Permalink
Posted by Loyal Homer
March 29, 2010
Read the opposing arguments from Loyal Homer and Bleacher Fan.
What an exciting NCAA Tournament this season. Exciting finishes? Check. Adversity overcome? Check. Solid, battle-tested teams? Check.
The excitement of the tournament at large is now over. It’s time for the best teams to get down to business and decide who the champion is. It’s time for the writers here at The Sports Debates to provide three opinions on which potential championship game matchup would be the best. For me, the answer is clear. The best possible matchup would be the Michigan State Spartans against the Duke Blue Devils.
It is not secret that I have a bias toward Michigan State because of the incredible respect I have for head coach Tom Izzo. While other certain writers here grab at the opportunity to poke fun of my enthusiastic and healthy respect for Izzo, the fact remains that the coach has again achieved what few thought was possible for his team this March. For the second time in the last decade Izzo has taken a fifth seeded team to the Final Four. The road has not been easy, either in opponent or in circumstance. A first round victory over New Mexico State was solid but expected. A tough win over a hard-nosed Maryland team – in spite of losing Big Ten Player of the Year and team star Kalin Lucas to a season-ending Achilles Heel injury – was amazing and unexpected. Notch two more wins over tournament Cinderella Northern Iowa (sorry Butler, you are too good to be fitted for a glass slipper) and a very tough Tennessee team, and Izzo’s Spartans have achieved victory over great basketball teams and a healthy stroke of bad luck.
Duke is an excellent basketball team that earned its number one seed. With only one blemish on the team’s record since January 31, Duke ramped up to the NCAA Tournament with a string of workman-like victories over good teams. The team has incredible scoring balance with Jon Scheyer connecting from the perimeter for 18 points per game and Brian Zoubek manning the middle for nearly eight rebounds and the team’s highest shooting percentage of over 64 percent. Kyle Singler provides versatile scoring as well. Duke is a deserving number one seed that has played the entire tournament with the poise and consistency of a properly seeded team.
Besides the fact that both teams are so good, a potential matchup would be incredibly entertaining because of potential player matchups. Zoubek is accustomed, at least in ACC play, of staying down low in the post and fending off talent like Derrick Favors from Georgia Tech (a Loyal Homer favorite). Michigan State’s Draymond Green, however, is a player unlike any that Zoubek has faced. Green has the size of Favors, with the ball handling and perimeter shooting ability of Clemson’s Trevor Booker. And better decision making than both combined. While the Spartans are missing Lucas, point guard Korie Lucious has really stepped up for the team. He has connected on more long range jumpers, grabbed more rebounds, played better defense, and played a lot more minutes for the team while the star is absent. His in your face defensive style – combined with his quickness – will be an interesting matchup for Scheyer who prefers to stay on the perimeter but can get to the basket when necessary. Singler will match very well with Raymar Morgan at both ends of the floor. Each team features more talent than just the players mentioned here, but these are the three matchups that I find most intriguing.
What is also interesting about these teams is how their respective conferences shaped them in one way or another. For Duke, it appears that the team is excellent in spite of the overall lacking conference the team played in during the regular season. The ACC disappointed virtually every time it was thrust on to the national stage. But Duke remained solid, proving it could succeed in a national tournament setting despite an unchallenging conference schedule to sift through. Opposite of Duke is Michigan State, a team that that is good because of the Big Ten schedule it played. The Big Ten was the only conference to have three teams present in the Sweet Sixteen, and with good reason. The consistent toughness and defense-first approach of the Big Ten always translates well in March… even if the brand of basketball lacks the sex appeal to be featured in a series of nationally televised games.
I am not in the prediction business. There is good reason for that, too. But am I in the geek business. My geeky instincts tell me Michigan State has a great opportunity here. Having beaten a Maryland team that already defeated Duke this season, the Spartans – provided they are able to get past an extremely balanced and talented Butler team – have earned the confidence to win the championship. Duke certainly is an excellent team, especially considering how it handled Purdue… a team the Spartans split with during the regular season. It just seems like the Spartans are tougher than Duke – especially on defense. Toughness matters in March. Toughness is also an Izzo trademark.
Michigan State was not expected to make the Final Four. Duke was, but is not playing as though it expected to. Both teams and coaches are to be commended for that. Given the obvious potential ratings and the potential coach and player matchups, the best possible championship matchup is Michigan State and Duke.
2 Comments | The Best 2010 NCAAB Championship Game Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, bleacher fan, defensive big ten, duke-michigan state matchup, izzo great coach, Korie Lucious, lackluster acc, loyal homer, Michigan State, Purdue, sports, sports arguments, Sports Debates, sports geek, The Best 2010 NCAAB Championship Game Debate, the sports debates, Tom Izzo, Toughness is also an Izzo trademark | Permalink
Posted by Sports Geek
March 29, 2010
Read the opposing arguments from Loyal Homer and Sports Geek.
Duke and Michigan State have made the Final Four… yawn!
In no way are my comments intended to diminish the impressive accomplishment that both schools have made. But let’s be honest – it is nothing new. And in this March Madness tournament, where the unprecedented has become the only precedent, there just is not any room on my wish list for programs and coaches who visit the Final Four with the same seeming regularity as my weekly trips to the grocery store.
Their counterparts, however, in the collection of 2010 NCAA Tournament Regional Champions are about to experience something altogether new.
It has been more than 50 years since the West Virginia Mountaineers last reached the Final Four with a shot to compete for the national championship, and 2010 marks the first time since the Calvin Coolidge administration that the Butler Bulldogs are in consideration for the nation’s top basketball prize. In this tournament of firsts, it only seems fitting that the championship matchup should pit two teams against each other that are competing for their first ever tournament title.
More important is the fact that both West Virginia and Butler are more deserving of the crown than Duke and Michigan State.
To begin with, neither of these teams should be a surprise as Final Four participants. Although Butler is coming out of the mid-major Horizon League Conference, they are the owners of the longest active winning streak in the country with their last loss coming at the hands of UAB BEFORE Christmas last year! Throughout the season they faced off against (and defeated) some of the top teams in the country, including victories over Ohio State and Xavier, both of whom were Sweet Sixteen teams.
As for West Virginia, the Mountaineers simply have too much talent on the floor to be stopped. In a year where much of the talent within the “usual” Big East powerhouses would be lacking (I TOLD YOU SO!), the combination of Da’Sean Butler, Devin Ebanks, and Joe Mazzulla was more than enough to carry the Big East banner deep into the 2010 tournament. Behind their seemingly re-invented head coach, Bob Huggins, this Mountaineers team has played like a team of destiny all season long.
Next, when comparing the tournament roads that each of the respective regional champions took to get to the Final Four, Butler and West Virginia have clearly faced off against the tougher competition, and both have survived intact. Butler had to take on and defeat both of the top two teams within their region (Syracuse and Kansas State) in order to continue the nation’s longest active win-streak. West Virginia was handed the task of beating the Kentucky Wildcats, a team which led the rankings as the nation’s top program for much of the 2009-2010 season (at least when Kansas wasn’t).
Compare that to Duke, who coasted into the Final Four as the beneficiaries of the weakest regional draw in the tournament, or to Michigan State, who played lesser-ranked teams in both of their Sweet Sixteen (against ninth-seeded Northern Iowa) and Elite Eight (versus sixth-seeded Tennessee) matchups.
While Butler and West Virginia were busy taking care of the so-called best teams in the country, Duke and Michigan State simply sat back and let other teams do all the hard work, while they just cleaned up the scraps.
Butler and West Virginia have already proven to be the best two teams remaining in the tournament, because they have both BEATEN the teams previously recognized as the best in the tournament. A championship game featuring these two teams would provide one of the most entertaining and dramatic tournament finals in memory.
If we have learned anything from the 2010 March Madness tournament, it is that the “establishment” needs to be shaken up a little bit. What was once considered gospel in the world of college basketball can no longer be counted on. The tried and true principles that we have assigned to the game of college hoops for years no longer seems viable, and we are now forced with redefining our criteria for recognizing the top teams in the country. It is time to see some new faces on top of the heap, and what better way to cap off this season of revolution than with a Butler-West Virginia national championship?.
Leave a Comment » | The Best 2010 NCAAB Championship Game Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, basketball, bleacher fan, Bob Huggins, Butler, Butler beat Kansas State, Butler beat Syracuse, college basketball, Duke, Elite Eight, Final Four, loyal homer, March Madness, Michigan State, national championship, NCAA, ncaab, sports, sports arguments, Sports Debates, sports geek, Sweet Sixteen, the sports debates, West Virginia, West Virginia beat Kentucky | Permalink
Posted by Bleacher Fan
March 29, 2010
Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Bleacher Fan.
I will be the first to admit that I am not terribly excited about this year’s Final Four. Yes, it is the Final Four. Yes, I will be watching because I am a sports fan. But it is not something I am going to anticipate all week. In my roughly 20 years or of picking a March Madness bracket, this is the first time EVER that I have not gotten one team right in the Final Four. My Final Four consisted of Villanova, Kentucky, Kansas State, and Kansas… and I know a lot of you had at least two of those teams in your bracket. Some of you may have had West Virginia or Duke, but how many of you had Michigan State or Butler? I actually had Butler in the Elite Eight, but not the Final Four. Nevertheless, here we are with our four teams, and we will make the best of it. CBS has to be cringing at the ratings that could be coming their way. Duke, and to some extent, Michigan State, have national followings, but the other two really do not. (Do you think the casual fan can name more than five players participating in Indianapolis Saturday night?) However, putting aside ratings and name recognition, I think the best matchup would be the Duke Blue Devils against the Butler Bulldogs.
I know the popular sentiment is going to want to see Tom Izzo and Mike Krzyzewski battle it out for the right to cut down the nets ( Sports Geek, in his love for Izzo, is hyping that dream matchup today). But in following the underlying theme of this year’s NCAA tournament, I want a powerhouse versus Cinderella matchup. Butler’s status as a Cinderella-type sleeper team Butler is debatable, but we will actually touch on that in another debate later this week.
Butler, in case you have not noticed, has had a very strong season. They have not lost since December 22, 2009. They went undefeated in the Horizon League. They have a coach in Brad Stevens who looks young enough to be the son of the other three coaches. The media guide states he is 33 years old, but I don’t believe it. Either way, out of the four teams left, Butler is the team that is the obvious underdog.
Duke, meanwhile, fully expected to be in this position. Even as a number one seed they have had their share of haters – including me – but here they are at their first Final Four in six years. They won yesterday despite Kyle Singler not having a single field goal, as he went 0-10 from the field. But Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith stepped up to help the Blue Devils beat the crowd favorite Baylor.
It will not exactly be David versus Goliath, but keep in mind this is unchartered water for Butler. Butler also would have strong support from the crowd, as their campus is right there in Indianapolis. But Duke, love them or hate them, has the national following and is the favorite. That is the kind of matchup we need in this season’s championship game.
Leave a Comment » | The Best 2010 NCAAB Championship Game Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, best possible matchup, bleacher fan, brad stevens, butler Cinderella story, Coach K, Final Four, loyal homer, March Madness, sports, Sports Debates, sports geek, the sports debates, Tom Izzo | Permalink
Posted by Loyal Homer
March 26, 2010
Read the opposing arguments from Loyal Homer and Sports Geek.
I can think of a handful of coaches who deserve a spot in this debate. One, in particular, I believe will be mentioned to us by a certain Syracuse fan during our weekly radio appearance on ESPN radio in New York today. Nevertheless, we have each selected the coach we believe most deserves esteem as the best NCAA Tournament coach of the previous ten years. For me, the conversation starts and stops with the great Tom Izzo at Michigan State.
Although Bleacher Fan is arguing in favor of the esteemed Roy Williams today, it is reasonable to question where his loyalties lie. After all, this is the same TSD contributor who just last week devoted a bunch of pixels to the merits of Tom Izzo as a leader in this exact debate. In fact, Bleacher Fan gets MY argument off to a great start by quoting the following very significant Tom Izzo stats (updated slightly from last week’s continued success):
- 2010 marked the 13th consecutive NCAA tournament appearance
- Izzo has coached nine teams to the Sweet Sixteen
- Izzo has coached six teams to the Elite Eight (and counting?)
- Izzo has coached three teams to the Final Four
- Izzo has coached two teams to the championship game, including one of the beginning of the decade (2000) and the end of the decade (2009)
- Izzo coached a national champion in 2000
Tom Izzo is also 33-11 all time in the NCAA Tournament, and counting. That stat is impressive both for the disparity in time and sheer volume.
Those are some very impressive accomplishments. The level of efficiency Izzo’s teams demonstrated on their path to the NCAA tournament is also impressive. Izzo’s Spartan teams have won the Big Ten four times in the last decade. The Big Ten is not a conference full of pushovers, either. Ohio State has been very good the last several seasons. Indiana began the decade as one of the most impressive and consistent programs in the history of college basketball. Purdue was usually strong during the 2000s, as was Illinois. But Izzo’s Michigan State teams always managed to make a splash in the tournament, while coaches at other competitive schools remained unable to match Izzo’s coaching accomplishments.
I began this argument by giving some tournament stats because that is an important context to begin gaining appreciation for Izzo’s contribution to coaching and his amazing accomplishments. But his coaching prowess has not been exclusive to the tournament. Tom Izzo is a master of massaging teams into shape just in time for the NCAA tournament to begin – which of part of being a great tournament coach. To Izzo, tournament coaching begins with minute one of game one of the regular season. That not insignificant point is underscored when reflecting on Izzo’s 360-144 regular season coaching record. Izzo enjoys the journey as much as any coach possibly could.
The secret to Izzo’s success is not that elusive, either. He is not a flashy coach with an outlandish, attention-grabbing demeanor. Therefore, he does not get the type of press that many of his colleagues do. In fact, Izzo’s character traits – gritty, tough, mentally strong, fundamental – are often adopted by his team… a big reason not only for the success and accomplishments of those teams but for the level of consistency Izzo’s teams have demonstrated over the years.
Another interesting and often overlooked fact about Tom Izzo coached tournament teams is that Izzo’s impressive coaching performances do not come when matchups and seeds favor a light path to glory. For example, in 2005 Izzo coached up a fifth seeded squad to the Final Four. Heck, in 2003 he coached a seventh seeded club to the Elite Eight. When high seeds and lights draws carve a smooth path to the Final Four for some, Izzo’s teams have rarely had the luxury of a high seed, but have achieved success in spite of that limitation.
Maybe some context will help us all appreciate Tom Izzo a bit more.
At the beginning of this piece I wrote about other coaches who may deserve a seat at this elite table. Foremost among them is Connecticut coach Jim Calhoun. How many Final Four appearances has Calhoun made in the 24 seasons he’s been coaching? Three, two less than Tom Izzo… but in a lot more seasons. More, Izzo is celebrating his 13th consecutive tournament appearance in 2010 while Calhoun is missing the tournament for the fifth time overall.
Coach K is incredible at Duke, but the Blue Devils have not been the same since 2004. Rick Pitino has one national championship appearance and five Final Fours like Izzo, but it is over 23 seasons of coaching. Is Billy Donovan better? No, just ask the NIT and BYU from this season’s tournament.
As good as Roy Williams is he has not enjoyed the same level of consistency Tom Izzo has. He is clearly a great coach, but the ability to reload and maintain competitiveness year after year is important when evaluating the best tournament coach of the past decade. It is tough to do that for Williams this season, as the Tar Heels completely missed the tournament.
There is no flash. There is no style. Tom Izzo is a substance-first type of coach, and his teams are reflect that reality. Success in the tournament is a byproduct of Izzo’s intense and effective leadership, making him the best coach in the NCAA tournament of the last decade.
5 Comments | The 2000-2010 Best NCAAB Tournament Coach Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, bleacher fan, In the Izzone, izzo best coach, izzo success, izzo type coach, izzone, loyal homer, sports, sports arguments, Sports Debates, sports geek, The 2000-2010 Best NCAAB Tournament Coach Debate, the sports debates, tom izzo bio | Permalink
Posted by Sports Geek
March 26, 2010
Read the opposing arguments from Sports Geek and Bleacher Fan.
I really wish all of the loyal TSD readers could have been a part of our editorial meeting Wednesday night. We all know that Dick Vitale loves Coach K and Robert Montgomery Knight. We know that Tim McCarver believes the Yankees can do no wrong. We know that Urban Meyer has a deep relationship with Tim Tebow, and if you don’t believe that, then maybe you should ask Orlando Sentinel reporter Jeremy Fowler. But all of those “infatuations” are extremely minute when compared to the feelings Sports Geek has toward Tom Izzo. All I have to say is “wow.” For more on that, take a look at his article.
In all seriousness, we are debating today the best tournament coaches of the past ten years. While I have nothing but respect for Izzo and Roy Williams, who is Bleacher Fan’s choice, it is obvious to me that Bill Self is the best tournament coach of the past decade.
You know, before researching information for this debate, I had forgotten that Bill Self took Tulsa to the Elite Eight back in 2000. It was the school’s first ever Elite Eight appearance. But we all know that Self made his name coaching for Illinois and Kansas.
I am a big believer that Self’s work at Illinois has largely gone unnoticed by fans and the media. Perhaps that is because of his hasty move to Kansas after telling Fighting Illini supporters that he was happy in Champaign. In his first season there he led Illinois to the Elite Eight before falling to national runner up Arizona. And though it really has no bearing on his status as a tournament coach, keep in mind that it was largely “his players” that went to the national championship game when Bruce Weber took over.
While in Kansas, he has continued the success that he achieved at previous stops. He took his first Kansas team to the Elite Eight in 2004 where the Jayhawks lost to eventual national runner-up Georgia Tech. In 2008, he finally won the big one as the Jayhawks defeated the Memphis Tigers in a thrilling national title game. It was indeed redemption for Self, but especially for the Jayhawks and Rock Chalk Jayhawk nation.
Self is one of two active coaches to take three teams to the Elite Eight. Can you name the other? It is Rick Pitino, of course. His last twelve teams have made the NCAA tournament. Granted, this year’s team underachieved once in the tournament. And yes, two of his earlier Kansas teams lost in the first round of the tournament. Beginning with the 2000 NCAA tournament when he was finishing up his stop at Tulsa, his teams have gone 24-10 in the crapshoot known as March Madness. Not bad at all!
Sometimes I feel as though Self does not necessarily get a lot of credit as it is taken a lot to overcome the stigma that Kansas chokes in the tournament. That stigma was built in large part by Bleacher Fan’s choice today, Roy Williams. And yeah, maybe Kansas does underachieve in the tournament at times. But it is hard to argue with Self’s results at three different schools. That is something Tom Izzo and Roy Williams cannot say.
Leave a Comment » | The 2000-2010 Best NCAAB Tournament Coach Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, bill self, bleacher fan, Kansas failures in tournament, Kansas Jayhawks, loyal homer, March Madness, Roy Williams, sports, Sports Debates, sports geek, the sports debates, Tom Izzo, top tournament coaches of past decade | Permalink
Posted by Loyal Homer
March 26, 2010
Read the opposing arguments from Babe Ruthless and Loyal Homer.
Baseball is America’s pastime. It has a history as rich in tradition as our own great nation, and Babe Ruthless’ argument does a tremendous job of capturing the diversity that has made the United States what it is today.
Unfortunately for the Babe, that was not enough to seal a victory in this debate. The victory is awarded to Loyal Homer.
As pointed out in the winning argument, baseball may be America’s pastime, but it is clearly lacking at present time.
Across the board, baseball has struggled in terms of both attendance and television ratings. For many different reasons, the game has failed to attract and retain fans at the same levels as other sports. Baseball needs to make LEGITIMATE changes, quickly, if it wants to remain relevant with the American public.
Babe Ruthless discusses the World Series droughts of the Red Sox and Cubs, as well as the nine year gap between Yankees’ championships, arguing that their respective droughts have endeared those teams to fans around the country (and world). While that may be true, and those championship droughts may be substantial, they do not really fit the context of this debate, which is to discuss teams that are perpetually rebuilding.
During the final 20 years of the Red Sox drought, while they did not win a World Series Championship, they did manage to reach the postseason seven times, including two American League pennant victories. The Cubbies have been to the postseason three different times in the last ten seasons, reaching the NLCS is 2003. The Yankees, during the nine-year so-called “drought” (pardon my lack of sympathy, Babe) still reached the postseason SEVEN times.
This debate was not about teams that have stayed competitive, but fell just short of the championship goal. It was about teams that have failed to even remain competitive.
In comparison to those so-called hardships suffered by teams like the Red Sox and Yankees, there are other teams like the Kansas City Royals that have not even seen the postseason in 25 years, or a Pittsburgh Pirates team that just last season finished off their 17th consecutive season with a losing record. THOSE are the fans who have checked out, and THOSE are the fans that MLB must appeal to once more.
Despite the lack of a World Series ring, fans of the Red Sox, Yankees, etc. still have reason to be excited each season, because they are still COMPETING for the postseason – there is still hope.
What on earth do the fans of the Pirates and Royals have to look forward to? There simply is not enough incentive for people to travel out to places like PNC Park or Kauffman Stadium, and that is bad for MLB business! You can only have so many “dollar-dog” nights and “college students get in free” promotions. Even those carnival attractions will eventually lose their luster under a constant barrage of fun-eroding, excitement-draining failure.
As I write this verdict, I am watching yet another round of sensational college basketball in the March Madness tournament. What has helped to make this tournament one of the most thrilling in recent memory is the simple fact that no outcome has been predictable, regardless of the pedigree that teams carried into the tournament.
The playing field in college basketball has been leveled in recent years. The separation between the power conferences and the mid-majors has been reduced drastically, and that parity has never been more evident than over the past two weeks of tournament play. Mid-major programs have turned in some of the greatest performances of this postseason, helping to get teams from a record ELEVEN different conferences into the Sweet Sixteen.
Sporting events are exciting to watch because we fans want to believe that our teams always have a chance to win. While we understand that our teams cannot win ALL of the time, we want to believe that they will win SOME of the time. If we cannot have that faith, then what is our incentive to watch? If I am going to EXPECT my favorite team to lose 60 percent of the time, then I am probably going to find something else to do for entertainment, rather than watch the game. The last thing that ANY sports organization wants is a collection of apathetic fans!
If Major League Baseball wants to improve its overall product as a business, they must find a way to improve their current system so that fans in EVERY city can believe their teams have a real shot at the postseason.
4 Comments | The MLB Team Rebuilding Debate | Tagged: Babe Ruthless, baseball, bleacher fan, championship drought, Cubs, Kauffman Stadium, longest championship drought, longest postseason drought, loyal homer, March Madness, MLB, most consecutive losing seasons, parity in sports, Pirates, pirates seventeen consecutive losing seasons, PNC Park, Red Sox, Royals, Royals postseason drought, sports, sports arguments, Sports Debates, sports geek, the sports debates, worst teams in baseball, yankees | Permalink
Posted by Bleacher Fan
