March Madness is, arguably, the single best sports competition in America.
Bowl Week is a chance to see the college football powerhouses face off in separate but (mostly) equal battles for bragging rights.
Both of these post-season college events, orchestrated by the NCAA, are designed to play out as the epic climax of their respective sports following a build-up of drama, upsets, and excitement over the course of each regular season. Because these are college events, run by the NCAA, there is no money on the line. (And, if you believe that, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.) These events are all about bragging rights, the opportunity to earn glory for your beloved employer (I mean university).
The amount of money generated by these events is astounding. Both command national media attention, and both are coincidentally timed with some of the highest absentee rates in all of Corporate America!
The popularity of these events is enough to rival even the Super Bowl, which is generally accepted as the king of sporting events and is often regarded as an unofficial national holiday.
But wait a minute… aren’t we forgetting something? Like Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone, the scrawny, geeky, often overlooked College World Series (CWS) is left behind while it’s bigger and much cooler brothers get to run all over the country, creating excitement wherever they go.
The College World Series (which is going on right now, in case you needed reminding – I’m not joking, here’s some proof), contains the exact same formula for success that March Madness and Bowl Week have. Collegiate-level athletes, competing in a national tournament, complete with Cinderella Stories, all building up to the spectacle that is (or SHOULD be) the College Baseball National Championship.
So, where does the national championship take place this year? Who’s the favorite? Which teams are the likely Cinderella stories this year, and which teams are destined for a rude and painful fall from grace?
For those of you who know the answers to those questions (thanks for all your support, Moms and Dads of the players!), you can attest to the excitement that goes on at the CWS. To the vast majority of the population, though, you probably have no clue as to how those questions should be answered.
How is it that in this country where baseball is considered the national pastime, that the College World Series seemingly fails so miserably at attracting the excitement and fascination that March Madness and Bowl Week are able to realize? Thank goodness we have Sports Geek and Loyal Homer on our side to help us find out the answer to these types of questions.
The question we are debating today:
Is the College World Series the best sporting event with the fewest viewers?
Sports Geek will argue that the College World Series is the best sporting event with the fewest viewers, and that it commands the same excitement and drama as its basketball and football counterparts do with drama that many sports fans are missing.
Loyal Homer will argue that the College World Series, despite a formula for success, is just not that appealing. He will take the position that there are other sporting events out there which deserve the media attention more than the CWS, and that the fans know exactly what they are missing – they just don’t care.
For the Sports Geek (yea, I’m writing in the third person… deal with it), nuance and subtlety are what make baseball a real passion. Knowing weird stuff like when the shortstop brushes his glove against his mouth in between pitches where there’s a runner on first base, he’s really telling the second baseman to cover the base in case of an attempted steal. Ain’t baseball grand?
But, these fascinating bits of nuance are not exclusive to baseball. In football nuance can be the difference between giving up a big play and creating a turnover on defense. For example, when a defensive back shifts the angle of his hips slightly open, he’s forcing the receiver inside when the play starts and signaling the free safety to charge the play and go for the interception on the slant route. These slight defensive adjustments are often the difference between winning and losing. So, why would a sport want to limit a team’s legitimate right to gaining an advantage by mastering the details?
The winner of this debate is…
BLEACHER FAN!!!!!
Due respect to Loyal Homer, I completely dismiss the notion that sign stealing between players is, in fact, stealing by Webster’s definition. Not only is it not stealing, it’s not cheating, either, since it is impossible to guess correctly all of the time – as commenter Mr. Doots rightly points out.
This sort of detail is something that really upsets managers, too. During a recent Chicago Cubs broadcast, Bob Brenly – color analyst and former World Series winning manager – expressed his irritation with backup Cubs catcher Koyie Hill for not mixing up the sign sequence after a runner reached second base. Sure enough, the next batter walked to put runners on first and second, putting the pitcher in an even more difficult situation. Brenly smartly placed blame on the battery, and not the player “stealing” a sign. He understands the system, and the opposition’s right to take advantage of a teams’ sloppy play.
Rick Sutcliffe is someone worthy of respect as an analyst and a former starting pitcher. While he must try to toe the line between describing the nuances of the game over the air and not giving too much information away, in this instance it was perfectly acceptable to make a comment if it was so obvious even he could see that Alex Rodriguez was relaying information from the on-deck circle. I’m sure the opposition noticed the same thing. That said, analysts must be careful to report what is happening, not become the story of what they’re supposed to be describing. That’s a cardinal sin for any reporter. But, that’s a debate for another day.
Regarding A-Rod and Mark Teixeira – we believe you were not stealing signs like we believe Artie Lang was just trying to “add some energy” to Joe Buck Live. It’s antics like this that make A-Rod one of the least liked, and most successful players, ever in all of sports.
Major League Baseball needs to acknowledge that sign stealing is a legitimate tactic employed by successful teams, not a dirty, cheap trick. It’s the responsibility of the battery to protect the integrity of their signs. If they fail to do that, shame on them.
I give Loyal Homer credit for accurately defining the word “steal” and showing the reasons why some believe sign stealing should be against the rules.
Well, let’s continue that line of logic. Sign stealing is bad because it’s “stealing,” and all stealing is bad. Signs aren’t the only things in baseball that are stolen, though. You also have BASE stealing. If the term stealing implies that some unethical or improper action is being followed, then we can’t just stop at sign stealing… my new call to action is to rid baseball of the crime that is base stealing!
I’m being facetious, of course. But, the argument Loyal Homer presents for why sign-stealing should be against the rules is flawed. Just because it has the word “steal” in it doesn’t make it a bad thing.
Now, let’s consider the intention behind sign stealing. Sign stealing is an attempt by one team to intercept and decode secret communications that may help interpret their opponent’s strategies and put them in a more advantageous position. Is that any different from studying film, or scouting reports, or any other type of analysis performed in preparation for an upcoming game? You’re collecting information – based solely on observation – and attempting to interpret it in order to be better prepared for an opponent.
If the New York Yankees paid someone from the Texas Rangers organization to tell them what each and every nuance of a catcher’s glove position meant, or used advanced technology to record signs, then rules have been broken. I am not speaking of this type of sign-stealing. However, if members of one team recognize the trends and patterns of an opposing player and accurately interpret them, then no rule-breaking has taken place. It is just the mental aspect of the game of baseball. Also, if the Rangers know that A-Rod once knew their signs (for example), then shame on them for being so stupid as to use the same signs now that he is their opponent.
Here’s a hypothetical situation. Let’s say A-Rod notices that whenever a certain batter assumes their batting stance, if they open their stance up they usually pull the ball into left field. After seeing this a few times, he recognizes the pattern. The next time he sees it he tells the outfielders behind him to shift more towards that direction. Is there anything wrong with that? I don’t think so. So, why is it any different to indicate to a batter what pitch you think is coming? You could still be wrong – you’re just trying to analyze the game.
Have you ever seen the comedy that is a third base coach signaling his batter instructions? It looks like a cross between my drunken cousin Ted trying to do the Electric Slide at a wedding and a guy swatting at a fly while wiping pudding off of his face and uniform. It’s completely ridiculous, so why go through it?
They must because they’re trying to secretly communicate information based on situations and positioning that THEY see, and want to gain an advantage over THEIR opponent. The intention is exactly the same. You are trying to hide your strategy from them, so they are entitled to try and guess that strategy.
I argue that sign stealing is nothing more than a case of “the pot calling the kettle black.” If one team is allowed to take measures in concealing secret messages back and forth from coach to player, then their opponents are equally entitled to observe and analyze those messages to try and divine meaning from the madness. Both are secretive, and both are intended to give one team an advantage over the other.
If you don’t want your signs to be stolen, then don’t use them!
Sign stealing has been going on since the early days of baseball. It happened yesterday. It happened today. Guess what? It’ll probably happen tomorrow.
There are many unwritten rules in baseball. Some that come to mind are as follows:
Never steal a base late in a game that’s out of hand. This happens occasionally, and it really ticks me off when it does.
Do not show up a pitcher after hitting a home run. This means no trotting or no excessive flipping of the bat. This rule applies to people like Atlanta Braves shortstop Yunel Escobar. It also applied to former Chicago Cubs right fielder Sammy Sosa (I was hoping we’d heard the last of him) and Seattle Mariners second baseman Bret Boone, when they were active.
Never try to break up a no hitter late in a game by bunting. The last time I remember this happening was in 2001 when Curt Schilling was pitching against San Diego while still with the Arizona Diamondbacks.
Those are three of my favorites. If a player pulls any of those tricks against a team I’m managing, payback is forthcoming. Your best hitter might as well go ahead and put some extra padding on, because he’s about to get a two-seam fastball drilled right into his ribs.
Here’s another unwritten rule to add:
Never steal signs!
The scenario Sports Geek touched on in the debate intro is interesting.
Let’s break down “sign-stealing.” More importantly, let’s break down the word “steal.”
According to Webster, “steal” means “to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force.”
In this particular situation, A-Roid (sp??) is taking “property” (baseball game information via “signs”) away from the opposing team. I can guarantee you the opposing team didn’t give A-Roid (sp??) permission to steal signs!
What is Major League Baseball, and our good buddy Commissioner Bud Selig, going to do about it? Are they going to turn a blind eye like the NCAA does (see yesterday’s debate)?
When there is blatant sign stealing going on, MLB should do something about it. At the very least, a fine should be levied against the parties involved for a first offender. If it continues, perhaps a suspension will clean things up really quickly.
Selig is all about trying to clean up the game and get baseball through the steroid era. If you are going to attempt to fix that problem, you might as well address sign stealing, too. Technology is more prevalent in baseball than ever before. Batters actually go into the clubhouse and look at video of their previous at bat in the middle of the game. (Is this perhaps another opportunity to steal signs? Hmmmm…)
There’s been a great deal of uproar and attention paid lately to the issue of sign stealing in Major League Baseball. As usual, our buddy/”lightening-Rod-for-controversy” (get it???) – New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez – is again in the middle. As first reported by the New York Daily News’ Mark Feinsand, ESPN baseball color commentator (and former Chicago Cubs starting pitcher) Rick Sutcliffe took up airtime to accuse A-Roid (sp??) of verbally feeding Yankees first baseman Mark Teixeira the location of a coming pitch. This, friends, is what we call stealing signs.
Sign stealing, or “tipping pitches” isn’t illegal… technically. It is, however, extremely taboo. It takes pre-planning, forethought, and, in the eyes of some, a willing disrespect for the game of baseball. Perhaps between the “admitted” steroid use and yelling “I got it” while rounding the bases in hopes of messing up the opposing team, A-Roid (sp??) has demonstrated a general disrespect for the game of baseball. Is it that much of a reach to believe he is also tipping pitches for his teammates? Selena Roberts of Sports Illustrated doesn’t think so. In fact, she devoted an entire portion of her book about A-Roid (sp??) to his pitching tipping ways when he was with the Texas Rangers.
The history of tipping pitches is long and storied. Here’s how it works. You just doubled off the wall in left-center (good job!) and are taking your lead off second base. The right handed batter that follows you in the lineup looks out at you after the pitcher agrees to the sign. You saw it was a fastball. So, you grab the bill of your cap with your right hand and take your lead with a slight lean to your right, third base. The batter immediately understands that he’s getting an inside fastball – extremely helpful information! This explanation, though complex, is exactly how sign stealing works. It’s usually subtle (unless you’re A-Roid… sp??). Given that fact, it’s impossible to believe a player when they claim they had no idea they were tipping pitches. If you believe a player when they deny tipping pitches, you may as well believe the NCAA takes recruiting violations seriously or that Artie Lang will be booked on the next episode of Joe Buck Live.
However, the real question for this debate isn’t whether someone did, or did not (yea right), tip pitches. The real question is:
Should sign stealing and pitch tipping be considered cheating by MLB and punished?
Loyal Homer will argue that sign stealing should be considered cheating, and MLB should levy serious punishment to deter it.
Bleacher Fan will argue that sign stealing should not be considered cheating, rather part of the game as a whole. After all, can’t the pitcher and catcher devise a sign sequence the opposition can’t figure out?
Enjoy this debate and weigh in with your opinions. Do you believe sign stealing should be illegal?
Well, nobody ponied up with the Krispy Kremes, so don’t blame me if you don’t like the verdict!
Before I declare the winner I have to get something off my chest – I do not like the current state of the NCAA one bit.
I can tolerate professional sports organizations – like the NFL, MLB, or NBA – working loopholes and angles to try and gain a competitive edge. I can tolerate multi-million dollar deals to bring in high-priced talent. These are legitimate businesses that are entitled to do what they can to try and make as much money as the market will tolerate.
The NCAA is NOT, however, a business. It was commissioned by President Teddy Roosevelt in response to the numerous injuries and deaths resulting from the game of football at the time. The purpose was to establish a governing body that would create and enforce rules to protect the players and the games. The NCAA is FAILING in that mission right now. Vacating wins is the most foolish and useless punishment that I have ever heard! Who cares that Alabama’s 2005 football record is going to be altered?! That’s not a punishment.
I like Sports Geek’s sentiment that punishments should be leveled at coaches and boosters. To take it one step further, they should also be leveled against the PLAYERS! Is Reggie Bush suffering for his violations? How about O.J. Mayo, or Derrick Rose? Do you think ANY of them care at all about what happens to their respective universities?
Before you can change the behavior, you have to change the mindset. Don’t give me the excuse that O.J. Mayo was just a kid getting money shoved in his face, and that he didn’t know any better, or that he was being taken advantage of. If someone shoved a sack full of cash in my hand for something that was against the rules when I was a 17 year-old kid I would have known EXACTLY what I was doing. Give the students, coaches, and boosters a reason to think twice before taking part in that activity.
Maybe I’m an idealist (or an idiot). To me college athletics are supposed to be about the spirit of competition. As a fan, I take pride when The Ohio State University shows up on a Saturday and routs “that school up North” (6 years and counting!!!). I like to think that it’s because the guys on the field believe in their team, and enjoy the majesty of the greatest rivalry in college football. I like to think that the players on MY team want to be a part of the history that is Ohio State vs. Michigan. I DON’T want to think that my team just has better cash, cars, and no-show jobs.
All ranting aside, it’s time to announce the winner…
SPORTS GEEK!!!!!!
While I disagree with Sports Geek’s sentiment that these student-athletes are being exploited (I don’t see Derrick Rose suffering for having been “exploited”), the argument does raise a very important point – the rules are not the problem.
I do not agree with Loyal Homer’s argument of winning at all cost. I think, in the interest of competition, rules have to be created and adhered to. The same principles that govern a successful business can apply just as effectively in collegiate athletics. That is, the idea that FAIR competition ultimately breeds success. Fair competition is what allows two people, teams, or organizations to evaluate and determine which side is better.
Loyal Homer does raise a valid point, though… ARE there any clean programs out there? The more I hear of these violations, the less I can comfortably believe in the idea that there are.
Last, I want to thank Sports Geek and Loyal Homer for coming on the show!
Recruiting scandals have been going for years. Monetary benefits are promised to high profile recruits. Homes are given to families. “Jobs” are given to recruits/student athletes by boosters. Where does it all end? Well, it’s not going to end. No matter what rules are out there, coaches and boosters will find ways around them.
Bleacher Fan mentioned the allegations involving Memphis, USC, and Alabama.
Now correct me if I’m wrong, but hasn’t Memphis (formerly known as Memphis State) been involved in recruiting shenanigans before? Yes I believe they have. Remember that 1985 team? No? Guess what? The NCAA doesn’t either. Thanks to a plethora of violations, their trip to the Final Four was made null and void. Well, here we are again with “The Derrick Rose SAT Story.”
Bleacher Fan brings up an excellent point. Has the NCAA just swept the Reggie Bush scandal under the rug? Will no wins be vacated by them? No titles striped? Oh, okay, then! Well I know of a five star athlete who will win a Heisman and help take your school back to glory. If you get his mom a good job and get his family a big fancy house, I will hand deliver him to you. And, don’t worry about the NCAA! I’ll make sure they turn their head.
Alabama… hmmm. Is it just me or did they just get off probation? Yes, and some shenanigans (you’ll find that this is one of my favorite words) took place in the 1990’s that they were put on probation earlier in this decade. Yet, with these latest violations, the only thing that happened to the Tide was the vacating of wins. That’s all well and good, but does that really matter? Is that just punishment for a school just coming off of probation? Granted, this round of violations was very minor, but the rules are there for a reason – apparently, the rules were made to be broken.
Tennessee head football coach Lane Kiffin has found himself feeling some heat in SEC territory for secondary violations (what a joke this term is).
I ask our loyal readers… do you believe there is there a clean program anymore? Of course, I say this in a sarcastic tone. But, a clean program seems to be a rare commodity.
You know, I’m to the point now where I say let’s just throw all the recruiting rules out the window. It’s a “dog-eat-dog” world out there. Do what you must to get the best athletes to come to your school. Get the star recruit an easy job, even if it is at an automobile dealership with strong ties to the school. Get the family a house. The bottom line is WIN and I don’t care how you do it!
It’s not like the NCAA is going to do anything about it! So I say go for it! Win at all costs!
Bleacher Fan poses an interesting question – should the NCAA even bother with recruiting rules in the age of “self-reporting” and NCAA nonchalant governance. Of course they should! The NCAA must have some measures in place to protect against entities (and coaches, boosters, etc.) that are seeking to exploit athletically talented students for their own gain and fortune. Protection of the student-athlete is one of the primary reasons recruiting rules came to fruition in the first place – along with the need to comply with Federal law and level the athletic playing field between institutions. However, rules that are open to a wide array of possible interpretation and a general lack of strict enforcement has distracted from the real value these rules still contain. It’s time to close the loops and get serious.
What started (in 1890) as a basic set of instructions for how a college coach can seek an athlete’s talents for their various teams – and, lest we forget, their intellect for the institution they represent – has devolved into a secret battle where opposing coaches try any method possible to reach out to a high school student-athlete, make a connection, and secure their talent. If a coach goes to an extreme to get a student admitted into a school (such as complicity in faking SAT/ACT scores) or students knowingly cheating in class in order to maintain their academic eligibility (ahem, Alabama, ahem, Florida State… ahem), then those students and coaches involved should receive a penalty. A big penalty. They’re cheating. If a student is expelled for cheating in a class, why does an athletic program or coach get a pass for cheating? Because the rules are poorly written and improperly enforced, not because they aren’t good rules.
To play sports in college a student must adhere to certain academic standards. If those standards are not met (or completely ignored in some cases) then the athlete becomes a de facto professional athlete, not a student athlete, and the playing field is no longer level. Therefore, the rules must exist.
But, it is not the rules themselves that are an issue, rather the NCAA’s decision about when and how to enforce them, and when they choose to turn a blind eye. The so-called “Death Penalty” for athletic programs at an institution is losing the specter of intimidation because it’s never been effectively used. The first instance of the rule being invoked involved Kentucky men’s basketball got the Death Penalty in 1953 after a point-shaving scandal. Somehow, they managed to get back into the NCAA Tournament after two years, and win another championship before the decade ended. In fact, in each instance where the penalty was levied, the athletic program managed to resurface later. Kinda takes the “Death” out of the “Death Penalty” – doesn’t it?
The enforcement issue comes from a convoluted definition of the core NCAA recruiting rule – what constitutes a “lack of institutional control?” Here’s how the NCAA defines that term:
“In a situation in which adequate institutional procedures exist, at least on paper, a practical, common-sense approach is appropriate in determining whether they are adequately monitored and enforced by a person in “control.”
Huh? Something tells me the “practical, common-sense approach” is widely defined and applied when determining punishments for offending institutions. Also, why is the program always at fault? Why doesn’t the NCAA ban a coach, or this mysterious “control” person, if they break the rules?
The rules exist because they’re important. But, the NCAA is terrible at responsibly enforcing them. The consequences and bad press are going to continue to pile up until the NCAA gets serious. With increasing scrutiny and public outcry, the NCAA should step up and enforce the rules to prove they’re more than just window dressing.
I can hook it up so that you can meet Sports Geek face to face! Exciting, isn’t it?! I KNOW! Well, I can make that happen for you. All YOU have to do is commit to reading our site every day for the next year. If you can do that for us, I can make your WILDEST dreams come true!!!
Okay, maybe meeting Sports Geek isn’t one of your wildest dreams (sorry to crush your ego, Sports Geek), but it seems like there’s been a lot of recruiting wheelin’ and dealin’ going on in the NCAA lately, and I just felt like joining in on the fun!
The NCAA has been handing down penalties to some of the major sports programs in college athletics. Allegations of recruiting violations are flying around, and someone’s going to lose an eye if people don’t start being more careful!
Let’s run down the NCAA recruiting drama of the past few weeks:
Men’s Basketball Coach John Calipari and the Memphis Tigers – Calipari is currently under investigation for “knowing fraudulence or misconduct” on a player’s SAT exam from the 2007-2008 season. It is believed that the player in question is current Chicago Bulls star point guard Derrick Rose.
Tim Floyd resigns from USC – Under allegations of bribery in the recruiting of current Memphis Grizzlies guard O.J. Mayo in 2007, Tim Floyd decided to step down from his position as the head coach of the USC Trojans Men’s Basketball Team.
The Alabama Crimson Tide must vacate football wins – Following reports that student-athletes – from 16 different athletic programs within the University of Alabama – participated in a textbook scandal, several punishments were leveled on the Crimson Tide. The most severe of these penalties is reserved for the football program, which will be force to vacate 21 wins from the 2005 season through the 2007 season. The school is also being placed on probation until June of 2012.
While those have been the most recent examples of excitement stemming from recruiting violations, let’s not forget some of our favorites. We have The Ohio State University’s spree of 13 reported violations during the 2007-2008 school year. Is it just me, or did people magically forget about the alleged recruiting violations regarding New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush at USC. (It’s beginning to seem like USC running backs can even get away with murder, right O.J. Simpson?!… thanks for that one Nick!)
Whatever your violation of choice, it seems there is a recruiting violation on the market for everyone right now. With all of these violations, we here at TSD World Headquarters began asking ourselves :
“Should the NCAA even BOTHER with these recruiting rules anymore?” (nice segue, huh?!)
Anyway, with all the reports of violations, it begs the question of whether or not these rules serve their intended purpose. So, our crack squad of debaters has assembled here at TSD, and we intend to find out!
Sports Geek will argue that, yes, the rules do still serve a very valuable purpose.
Loyal Homer will argue that, no, the NCAA shouldn’t even bother with these rules because they aren’t being followed anyway.
With that, the debate begins (although the ruling can be bought for a dozen Krispy Kreme’s!).
It’s hard to find folks who sit on the fence about John Daly. It’s clear to me that fans of golf are either passionately loyal to him arguing that he is representing all regular folks out on the course, or vehemently disdain him because of a repeated lack of respect, in their view, of golf.
Without further ado, the winner of The John Daly Fans Debate is…
LOYAL HOMER!!!!!!
To recap… Loyal Homer did an excellent job of capturing the essence of the pro-John Daly group, even taking the argument a step further and calling John Daly a standout underdog in a sport dominated by underdogs – thanks to Tiger Woods. Bleacher Fan (whose keyboard may still be smoking) launched the counter-argument that John Daly is everything that golf culture isn’t – lewd, distasteful, and generally un-gentlemanly.
To me, this debate is not, as Loyal Homer stated, about whether John Daly is an underdog, feel-good story. This debate is not, as Bleacher Fan stated, about the various, well-documented illegalities and addictions that John Daly has struggled with throughout his career golf. This debate is asking if fans should root for John Daly, and all of the baggage that comes with him.
In short, fans should root for John Daly in the way that Loyal Homer described – as a good friend who continually makes poor decisions. Therefore cheering his successes only reinforces the positive outcomes. Do we get to a point with a family member or friend where we simply give up trying to help them? Doubtful. In Daly’s case, the goal must be to laud the accomplishments that reinforce the gentlemanly nature of men’s professional golf… something that separates it from all other major sports.
I will say that I do not agree with every aspect of Loyal Homer’s argument, specifically, the claim that John Daly’s crowds rival that of Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. While Daly may move the ratings needle slightly (in the same way that people love to watch live car chases), I do not think that golf fans rearrange their schedules on Sunday afternoon to watch John Daly, the way they would for Tiger or Lefty.
I’ll also tack on that I agree with Bleacher Fan – Daly has injected some unfortunate memories into the sport’s history. It does seem strange for Daly to share the record books with some of the golf’s greats, even if he did earn his place.
John Daly is not an underdog. He’s a good golfer – or at least he can be. Fans should support Daly’s better golf outings, and root for his respect of the sport, and himself.
And we're back... Should college coaches look into criminal and juvenile records when recruiting? The verdict says YES! http://bit.ly/dZ5LF310 months ago
Posted by Bleacher Fan 
